Babylon the Great???

[sdktlk]

We search endlessly for who or what is Babylon the Great. But, it seems to me, we never consider or examine her "appearance." So, what does she look like?

"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: and upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel?" (Rev 17:5-7a)

Can we, from the Scriptures, determine what her appearance is. We know that she is symbolic of something, so what do her symbol's point to?

1) arrayed in purple

2) arrayed in scarlet

3) decked, that is gilded, with gold

4) gilded with precious stones

5) gilded with pearls

6) having a golden cup

7) in her hand

8) And why did John marvel at this vision? He saw many, many things in The Revelation but he only marveled at this one. Why?

I'm just saying, if we are to see her maybe we should start with what the symbol's of her stand for and why this one thing in Revelation caused John to marvel. What say you?

[mizzdy]

Babylon was a religious, economic and militaristic system and she is also described these ways"

Jer. 50:23 as a consumer, importer and when that fails the world will mourn her, she is also a hammer of the whole world or policeman of the world, she has cities all over the world much like America does with their military bases, she has land all over the world, embassies?, known for taking land from other nations or envading them (Isa.14), a center of agriculture, Jer. 50:16, she hosts large amounts of the people of Judah/Jews, they have an alliance with islamic nations, Isa.13, Jer. 51, Rev. 17.

Most see the rcc as babylon I see the US as babylon, she fits much better but if anything there is mother and the mother gives rise to the daughter teaches her everything she needs to be all she can be.

[Guest]

Babylon was a religious, economic and militaristic system and she is also described these ways"

Jer. 50:23 as a consumer, importer and when that fails the world will mourn her, she is also a hammer of the whole world or policeman of the world, she has cities all over the world much like America does with their military bases, she has land all over the world, embassies?, known for taking land from other nations or invading them (Isa.14), a center of agriculture, Jer. 50:16, she hosts large amounts of the people of Judah/Jews, they have an alliance with islamic nations, Isa.13, Jer. 51, Rev. 17.

Most see the rcc as babylon I see the US as babylon, she fits much better but if anything there is mother and the mother gives rise to the daughter teaches her everything she needs to be all she can be.

Even While Many Of My Elders Were Breathing Fire And Brimstone Onto Anything Or Anyone Roman Catholic

And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Revelation 18:1-7

And As A Very Young Child I Always Thought Babylon Meant Babylon

Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! Romans 18:10-16

Because Whenever I Read Of Cyrus, Cyrus Always Meant Cyrus

That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers: That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. Isaiah 44:28

You See

Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. John 11:47-52

[Guest]

Jerusalem is that city.

According to scripture, the king of Babylon has power over the nations for 70 years. After 70 years have been completed those nations (ten horns) shall destroy Babylon.The timing seems perfect. Iran (The Medes) should have their nukes at that time. Remember, it is the Medes who shall destroy Babylon .

1948+70=2018

Interesting

____________

Poor Islam! For Babylon Is Forever Smoked

And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. Revelation 18:21

And Israel Is Blessed! For Jerusalem Is Forever Saved By KING Jesus

The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. Joel 3:16-17

[nebula]

Time to pin the tail on Mystery Babylon!

Let's see who wins this game.

Hmm....if I understand all mysteries...but have not love...what am I?

Let him who boasts (or glories, depending on your translation) boast in - what? (Can you fill in the Scripture?)

The whole duty of man, the whole duty of man, what is it?

The goal of our faith, is it here? Or is it found in a different search?

Spirit of prophecy . . . isn't there something in Scripture about what the spirit of prophecy is?

Hmmm...

[sdktlk]

Time to pin the tail on Mystery Babylon!

Let's see who wins this game.

Hmm....if I understand all mysteries...but have not love...what am I?

Let him who boasts (or glories, depending on your translation) boast in - what? (Can you fill in the Scripture?)

The whole duty of man, the whole duty of man, what is it?

The goal of our faith, is it here? Or is it found in a different search?

Spirit of prophecy . . . isn't there something in Scripture about what the spirit of prophecy is?

Hmmm...

Let's start with this one... The whole duty of man - "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." (Ecc 12:13)

It seems sometimes we have no "Fear of God" as we handle the Word of God, which is the "testimony of Jesus:" for He is the "Word made flesh," as if what it says is of no real consequence.

As to knowledge, for the sake of, verses Love ... Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." (Mar 12:28-31) In order to fulfill the second I have to be in compliance with the first.

This takes us back to, "Fear God, and keep his commandments." The Apostle John said, "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." (1Jn 5:2-3) What commandments are being spoken of here?

The Lord Jesus said, "If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (Jn 15:10) What commandments are these? One would suppose that they would begin with the first teachings (commandments) of the Lord to the disciples in Matthew 5, 6, 7 and continue on through with all His instructions and directions. The Word says, "By this we know that we love the children of God." Love is not determined by how we feel about a particular matter, Love is an action we take out of obedience concerning a matter, in accordance with the Word of God, regardless of what I feel or think. That would be my understanding anyway.

Here, for example, is a commandment under the new covenant that we, as Christians, should, "Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king." (1Pet 2:17) It does not say "honor the good king," it says "honor the king." Do we, from the heart, because we Love the Lord, "lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness (that is out of reverence to God) the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (Jas 1:21) Or, if "the king" doesn't match up to my standards of "good and evil" what should we do now? Just a general example.

This is just a general observation but the "church" today seems to be full of those who are, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith." (2Tim 3:7-8) The Truth is written in "honor the king" and it takes "faith" to do that Word. By this we see that knowledge can be bad if it is just for knowledge's sake, but, on the other hand, it is important to "come to the knowledge of the truth."

I'm not quite sure where "boasting" enters in when it is simply a desiring for us all to, "come to the knowledge of the truth." I see that it is important to be, "speaking the truth in love" (Eph 4:15a) so that we, "may grow up into him in all things." (Eph 4:15b) We are encouraged by the Apostle Paul, "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive." (Eph 4:14) It seems that the only way we can avoid this is to come to the knowledge of the truth. The Greek word epignōsis interpreted knowledge in 2 Timothy 3:7 means, "recognition, that is, (by implication) full discernment, acknowledgement."

This full discernment is what puts us on the "rock" of which the Lord Jesus said, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Mat 16:17b-18) When one gets upon the rock of full discernment, which only come's from Heaven, that one cannot be shaken.

The goal of our faith one would think is on this wise, "till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" (Eph 4:13) Those that would play "games" concerning the Word of God would be unwise ... What say you?

[mizzdy]

Time to pin the tail on Mystery Babylon!

Let's see who wins this game.

Hmm....if I understand all mysteries...but have not love...what am I?

Let him who boasts (or glories, depending on your translation) boast in - what? (Can you fill in the Scripture?)

The whole duty of man, the whole duty of man, what is it?

The goal of our faith, is it here? Or is it found in a different search?

Spirit of prophecy . . . isn't there something in Scripture about what the spirit of prophecy is?

Hmmm...

Well Neb the whole duty of man is to

'Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.'

Most consider the commandments null and void. I like talking about prophecy, I like the discussions that can come about when no one is insisting they know the whole truth of the matter because I certainly do not have all the answers. I personally am not going to get into a heated debate over prophecy with anyone just so unproductive and unedifying to fight over Gods words for which we do not have all the answers for so I am sorry that you may have felt I was somehow trying to push my thinking on anyone or boasting about any kind of superior knowledge.

So heres my disclaimer to all, I am not pushing my thinking on anyone, not going to debate or argue. Below are my views, my thinking from reading and studying what is in the world today and how its all kinda shaping up.

Babylon is interesting, personally I see it as America, the western mindset so to speak, America interestingly enough has the biggest military base ever built right there in Iraq right outside of the old ancient city of Babylon, for why I have no idea we are supposed to be leaving that country yet still continue to build, have a permante staff and employee hundreds if not thousands of other part time employees. Babylon is more than a capital city its a whole system and that 'system' does not require it to be in the ancient land but one that operates like Babylon. Babylon is a chief city but it also has many cities attached to it, no good conquerer would be satisfied with just one city! lol And because its a system I think that we can see it all over the world, countries invading others and conquering them and ruling the people taking away their systems and pushing the conquering model on them. Babylon must have an army that conquers and one that the medes and other islamic nations hate and wish to conquer themselves or fight with as we see in Jer. 51:11 so far rome doesn't fit the bill and the EU is a bit fractured at this time and they themselves are not the police men of the world and I believe they have discontinued pushing military bases on nations across the world at this time. Europe or Britan at one time was quite the conquering nation but no longer and even if America doesn't 'conquer' nations we do impose our will on them. Babylon is destroyed in a day and the merchants of the world mourn, seems we need to find out which country or cities would create such distress, which system so far still holds sway with money and trade, military and who the beast hates the most. Babylons days are nearing an end according to scripture if indeed we are entering the last of this age so it won't be much longer before we all shake our heads wondering how we all didn't see things right.

Every country on this planet more than likely has some role in the end times chiefly because Gods own are scattered everywhere. There does seem to be one system headed by rulers that have held more land than any other, that has their presence all over the world, that impose their ideals and ways on others, a military powerhouse, trader with all the nations, has one of the best economic systems in the world, (not for long perhaps) the list goes on for the attributes of Babylon. For me this does not fit the rcc being the head of a revived roman empire for many reasons which many believe Babylon is but I do whole heartily believe they (EU,rcc) have great influences on America, and the rest of the world. The white horse could very well be the rcc just have to wait and see how it all pans out.

[Guest man]

I like the discussions that can come about when no one is insisting they know the whole truth of the matter because I certainly do not have all the answers.

[Botanist]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" ~George Santayana

Ask the Protest~ant Reformers, the Fathers of Modern Western Christendom, just who and what they believed Babylon to be.

http://www.theopedia.com/Protestant_Reformation

http://www.theopedia.com/Protestant_Reformation

Charlie 7, base,

The Jesuits are in the pantry, i say again, the Jesuits are in the pantry.

roger that, Charlie 7.

my people perish for lack of knowledge.

[mizzdy]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" ~George Santayana

Ask the Protest~ant Reformers, the Fathers of Modern Western Christendom, just who and what they believed Babylon to be.

http://www.theopedia.com/Protestant_Reformation

http://www.theopedia.com/Protestant_Reformation

Charlie 7, base,

The Jesuits are in the pantry, i say again, the Jesuits are in the pantry.

roger that, Charlie 7.

my people perish for lack of knowledge.

I agree the Jesuits are one nasty group at least the ones I have had interaction with and I can see some connections between them and islam, certainly we can see how Germany, islam, the vatican and others were the ones who brought islam into being. And its really easy to see in history why the vatican was pretty much disliked if not hated by many of the reformers and the vatican has to have a role in the end of the age but the vatican does not fit the Babylonian system, they have no army, they no longer send other soliders from other countries to do their conquering, they are not traders of anything except religion, which in itself is bad enough! lol Rome, the rcc, the vatican does not have its own worlds police man and America is not controlled by the pope as many believe heck this president likes islam much more it seems. The vatican at one time was much sought after by the islamic clerics yet I think that had more to do with what they could get them to do for them. Babylon is hated by the beast and since I think the beast is islam we see that rhectoric daily directed right at the US and Israel many of the clerics believe they already have europe in their grasp. The vatican only has one city that it controls babylon is said to have many, babylon is a center of agriculture according to Jer. 50 and babylon is said to be a host for Judah/Jews and we know that America has the biggest population of Jewish brethren out distancing Israel by a larger amount last time I saw the stats.

I will go with the bible rather than the reformers they did have an ax to grind, its kinda like the Jews in the day of the Messiah they all wanted someone to come and take care of the evil roman empire and He didn't do that, we all want to put whoever is oppression us as the beast/whore etc. We need to get back to the beginning and see what God says, "Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure." Isa. 46:9-10

This verse and others tell me God set all things in the beginning, this shows me I need to look to the beginning to see who the end times players are who come against those in the land of Israel. As I said earlier I don't have the answers just my thinking but if we just lay everything at the feet of the pope to carry out we miss out on so many other possiblities for God to direct our learning.