sheya joie Posted April 13, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2011 satan does not want to be subservient to the Glorifying of God ... he and the fallen ones believe it is better to rule in hell than to serve in Heaven. This is the pride of life Please show me in scripture where the devil and fallen ones rule in hell. My bible says: Revelation 20 10 And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were . And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted April 13, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2011 Why Is Hell Forever? For the past several weeks, evangelical Christians have spent a lot of time talking about Rob Bell’s new book, Love Wins, in which he seeks to redefine the Christian doctrine of hell. As others have noted, Bell’s argument is not new at all. But Bell’s central point is always relevant. One of his questions weighs particularly heavily. Why, if there is a hell, is it forever? The idea of eternal hell weighs heavily on the heart, as we think of those we know and love apart from Christ. Sometimes a devilish desire to condemn (”You will not surely die”) is behind a denial of future judgment, but sometimes the human motive is just the unbearable gravity of it all. Why, Bell and others before him ask, would God sentence an everlasting punishment for crimes committed in what God himself describes as a life so quick that it’s like a vapor of mist? First of all, the Scripture is quite clear that hell is indeed everlasting. Jesus leaves the psychic burden intact. Yes, Scripture speaks of hell as “death” and “destruction” but defines these in terms of a place where “they will be tormented day and night forever and ever” (Rev. 20:10). Why must this go on forever? There are at least two reasons. First, the revolt against God is more serious than we think it is. An insurrection against an infinitely worthy Creator is an infinitely heinous offense. We know something of this intuitively. This is why, in our human sentences of justice, we sentence a man to one punishment for threatening to kill his co-worker and another man to a much more severe punishment for threatening to kill the nation’s president. Second, and more important, is the nature of the punishment itself. The sinner in hell does not become morally neutral upon his sentence to hell. We must not imagine the damned displaying gospel repentance and longing for the presence of Christ. They do indeed, as in the story of the rich man and Lazarus, seek for an escape from punishment, but they are not new creations. They do not in hell love the Lord their God with heart, mind, soul, and strength. Instead, in hell, one is now handed over to the full display of his nature apart from grace. And this nature is seen to be satanic (Jn. 8:44). The condemnation continues forever and ever, because the sin does too. Hell is the final “handing over” (Rom. 1) of the rebel to who he wants to be, and it’s awful. Attempts to navigate around the truth of hell as everlasting punishment show us something of our complicity in the Edenic sin: the substitution of human wisdom and human justice and, yes, human notions of love for the authority of God. Yes, hell is horrifying. God deems it so. Our response to such horror should not be denial, but the fervent evangelism of the nations. Knowing the terror of it all, we should plead with people, as though Christ himself were pleading through us, “Be reconciled to God” (2 Cor. 5:20). As C.S. Lewis writes, “In the long run the answer to all those who object to the doctrine of hell is itself a question: ‘What are you asking God to do?’ To wipe out their past sins and, at all costs, to give them a fresh start, smoothing every difficulty and offering every miraculous help? But he has done so, on Calvary. To forgive them? They will not be forgiven. To leave them alone? Alas, I am afraid that is what he does.” Hell ought to drive us not to find misplaced hopes for the lost, but to the only hope for us, and for the whole world, the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Christian gospel maintains that “the day of salvation” is now (2 Cor. 6:2), during this lifetime’s temporary suspension of doom. After this, the grace of God is not extended, only his justice, and that with severity. Jesus does indeed triumph over all things (Love wins!), making peace through the blood of his cross (Col. 1:20). But this peace doesn’t mean the redemption of each individual. Instead, Jesus triumphs over his enemies, as they are defeated beneath the feet of his kingship. Yes, every tongue confessed Jesus as lord, even Satan himself (Phil. 2:9-11). This does not mean, as Jesus himself teaches, that every tongue cries out to him for salvation. Instead there is a universal recognition that Jesus has triumphed over every rival to his throne. The redeemed will love this truth; the impenitent will lament it. Until then, we preach, we plead, we beg, we warn. Hell is awful, and unending, and completely avoidable. Link I agree with this way of looking at the reason for the eternality of hell. Heaven is the sinless, loving relationship between Creator and His creation, and hell is the absence of God. We rejected God when we sinned against Him, and those who confirmed their choice by rejecting even the free gift of salvation through faith in grace are accommodated. If we rejected communion with God, and then reject being made clean so that we can be presented in His Holy presence, then we've opted out of being in His presence while there was an opportunity to repent and be made clean. "To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen" (Jude 24-25). If we come before Him carrying all our sins and say that we don't want to serve Him but we don't want to suffer so we'll opt for a relationship with Him by default, that's not love, that's not service and we're still just as unworthy of heaven as before and we're still rejecting the grace He gave us. God gives us the opportunity to repent and lets us know the stakes, because He "wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim. 2:4), but if He were to retain us for a relationship with Him despite the just wages of our sin, and despite our unwillingness, under only the extortion of threats it would be cosmic rape, nothing less, and that is not the loving relationship that God offers to those who would escape the just punishment of their sins by faith in grace. Mr. Bell needs to answer the question found in scripture: "how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation?" (Hebrews 2:3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 14, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,193 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted April 14, 2011 satan does not want to be subservient to the Glorifying of God ... he and the fallen ones believe it is better to rule in hell than to serve in Heaven. This is the pride of life Please show me in scripture where the devil and fallen ones rule in hell. My bible says: Revelation 20 10 And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were . And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and Him sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And a place was not found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death. 15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire. As I recall, the 'better to rule in hell' line is from John Milton's Paradise Lost. I believe your right it appears to be one of those self evident truths ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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