Guest Butero Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Huh what? What are your current feelings towards Israel? Thats a can of worm that I do not want to open... I get in a lot of trouble with most fundies because I feel that both the ultra-Zionists in Israel and Hamas in the territories are responsible for this mess, and I think both need to be removed from power before anything can be done towards peace. I have probably already said too much. There's a reason I stay off the topics having to do with Israel on forums where the majority are Christian Zionists who believe that Israel can do no wrong... What is an "ultra-Zionist?. People like you dont' even know what Zionism is. We don't believe Israel can do no wrong. Israel has made mistakes. But the Islamic community has drawn first blood. The middle east conflict is an Arab war of attrition against the existence of Israel. Israel has done more good things for their enemies than they should have. They have given away land and provided many benefits for Palestinians that even the Arab countries do not give their own people. The "ultra-Zionists as you call them have opted to provide free healthcare and social security to the Palestinians. They even grant the Palestinians free access to Israel's legal system. Israel protects the freedom of speech of Palestinians by allowing calls for Israel's destruction by screaming Imams every friday night in mosques that sit on Israeli soil. Honestly, it is probably best that you avoid making your anti-Semitic comments on this board You would be demolished in just a few posts. What anti -semitic comments has he made? You use this term to attack, and marginalise anyone who has the temerity to disagree with you. I find it adeeply unpleasant thing to do, as it insults people who are blameless and trivialises the reality of anti-semitism I would ask ByronA how both sides are equally responsible? What is an ultra-Zionist? All Zionists desire is that Israel be allowed to survive. Hamas and other Muslim extremists desire to wipe Israel off the map. I guarantee you that if Muslim terrorists would just go away and leave Israel alone, the violence would end because Israel never starts it. Each attack begins like this. Muslim extremists attack innocent Israeli citizens. Everyone calls on Israel to use restraint. Israel launches a counter-attack and everyone crucifies them. Then people like ByronA say both sides are at fault. Of course this comes across as anti-Semitic, but I have a differen't theory. I think ByronA just wants to come across as moderate, so he can't take sides. He has to be in the middle. That makes him look more reasonable. The problem is, there is a clear right and wrong in this conflict, and it just so happens that Israel is in the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amor Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,194 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2011 Without wanting to put words into his mouth I assume he is refering to the Israeli far right. In particular those pushing for increased settlements on the West Bank and those who oppose the creation of a viable Palestinian state . Basically those who reject the idea of Palestinians having a national future - rejecting a two state solution. Saying you oppose such an approach hardly makes you an anti-semite or even an anti-zionist. Most Israeluis, after all including rightists such as Lieberman favour a two state solution. Perhaps, those are not his views, but until ByronA actually starts making anti-semitic comments, it is outrageous for Shiloh to libel him in this way. Thjis is now crazily off topic, my main point is that Shiloh should treat other posters with respect, as the terms of service oblige us to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Without wanting to put words into his mouth I assume he is refering to the Israeli far right. In particular those pushing for increased settlements on the West Bank and those who oppose the creation of a viable Palestinian state . Basically those who reject the idea of Palestinians having a national future - rejecting a two state solution. Saying you oppose such an approach hardly makes you an anti-semite or even an anti-zionist. Most Israeluis, after all including rightists such as Lieberman favour a two state solution. Perhaps, those are not his views, but until ByronA actually starts making anti-semitic comments, it is outrageous for Shiloh to libel him in this way. Thjis is now crazily off topic, my main point is that Shiloh should treat other posters with respect, as the terms of service oblige us to. Personally, I don't support a two state solution. The land belongs to Israel because God gave it to Abraham and his descendants. Israel is really entitled to more land than they currently dwell on. I would be interested in a response from Byron. As I said, I don't think he said anything that proves he is anti-Semitic. I have seen enough of his opinions to believe he is trying to be "moderate." And yes, this is "crazily off topic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Huh what? What are your current feelings towards Israel? Thats a can of worm that I do not want to open... I get in a lot of trouble with most fundies because I feel that both the ultra-Zionists in Israel and Hamas in the territories are responsible for this mess, and I think both need to be removed from power before anything can be done towards peace. I have probably already said too much. There's a reason I stay off the topics having to do with Israel on forums where the majority are Christian Zionists who believe that Israel can do no wrong... What is an "ultra-Zionist?. People like you dont' even know what Zionism is. We don't believe Israel can do no wrong. Israel has made mistakes. But the Islamic community has drawn first blood. The middle east conflict is an Arab war of attrition against the existence of Israel. Israel has done more good things for their enemies than they should have. They have given away land and provided many benefits for Palestinians that even the Arab countries do not give their own people. The "ultra-Zionists as you call them have opted to provide free healthcare and social security to the Palestinians. They even grant the Palestinians free access to Israel's legal system. Israel protects the freedom of speech of Palestinians by allowing calls for Israel's destruction by screaming Imams every friday night in mosques that sit on Israeli soil. Honestly, it is probably best that you avoid making your anti-Semitic comments on this board You would be demolished in just a few posts. What anti -semitic comments has he made? You use this term to attack, and marginalise anyone who has the temerity to disagree with you. I find it adeeply unpleasant thing to do, as it insults people who are blameless and trivialises the reality of anti-semitism It is anti-Semitic to equate these far right Zionists with terrorism. I use the term to highlight the spirit behind such attempts moral equivalency. No, it does not trivialize the reality of anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism doesn't herald its presence with swawtikas and klan hoods. It often pretends to care about the Palestinians, but in truth only care about the palestinians insomuch as it can use them as a platform for demonizing and smearing Israel. It fails to take into account the sacrifices and risks that Israel has made for peace and the many times Israel has given land in hopes of peace only to be repaid with bloodshed. Perhaps, those are not his views, but until ByronA actually starts making anti-semitic comments, it is outrageous for Shiloh to libel him in this way. It is the same kind of politically correct anti-Semitic remarks you make all of the time. I have learned out how to spot such things early on. The minute people equate right-wing Israelis with Hamas, it is an anti-Semitic comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amor Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,194 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2011 Huh what? What are your current feelings towards Israel? Thats a can of worm that I do not want to open... I get in a lot of trouble with most fundies because I feel that both the ultra-Zionists in Israel and Hamas in the territories are responsible for this mess, and I think both need to be removed from power before anything can be done towards peace. I have probably already said too much. There's a reason I stay off the topics having to do with Israel on forums where the majority are Christian Zionists who believe that Israel can do no wrong... What is an "ultra-Zionist?. People like you dont' even know what Zionism is. We don't believe Israel can do no wrong. Israel has made mistakes. But the Islamic community has drawn first blood. The middle east conflict is an Arab war of attrition against the existence of Israel. Israel has done more good things for their enemies than they should have. They have given away land and provided many benefits for Palestinians that even the Arab countries do not give their own people. The "ultra-Zionists as you call them have opted to provide free healthcare and social security to the Palestinians. They even grant the Palestinians free access to Israel's legal system. Israel protects the freedom of speech of Palestinians by allowing calls for Israel's destruction by screaming Imams every friday night in mosques that sit on Israeli soil. Honestly, it is probably best that you avoid making your anti-Semitic comments on this board You would be demolished in just a few posts. What anti -semitic comments has he made? You use this term to attack, and marginalise anyone who has the temerity to disagree with you. I find it adeeply unpleasant thing to do, as it insults people who are blameless and trivialises the reality of anti-semitism It is anti-Semitic to equate these far right Zionists with terrorism. I use the term to highlight the spirit behind such attempts moral equivalency. No, it does not trivialize the reality of anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism doesn't herald its presence with swawtikas and klan hoods. It often pretends to care about the Palestinians, but in truth only care about the palestinians insomuch as it can use them as a platform for demonizing and smearing Israel. It fails to take into account the sacrifices and risks that Israel has made for peace and the many times Israel has given land in hopes of peace only to be repaid with bloodshed. He doesn't equate them with terrorism though. I assume you mean terrorists (Hamas). I assume the comparison he makes is between the irredentists on both sides and Hamas as well as being terrorists are irredentists. Not by the way that there hasn't been acts of terrorism from fringe ultra zionists. Remember the murder of 29 arabs at the Cave of the Patriachs in Hebron by Baruch Goldstein or the murder of Yitzhak Rabin by Yigal Amir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 well, byron, congratulations. you have managed to single-handedly get everybody's focus OFF the issue that this thread is about, and start turning it into a debate on something totally unrelated. gotta hand it to ya, you're good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 He doesn't equate them with terrorism though. I assume you mean terrorists (Hamas). It's all the same. He blames all the problems on Hamas and far right Israelis as if they are morally equivalent and they are not. I assume the comparison he makes is between the irredentists on both sides and Hamas as well as being terrorists are irredentists. Except it is the Zionists who are calling for anyone's destruction. It is groups like Hamas who are driven by one goal and that is the complete annihilation of Israel. Israel has made far, far more concessions for peace than the Palestinians and have received nothing in return for bloodshed. Not by the way that there hasn't been acts of terrorism from fringe ultra zionists. Remember the murder of 29 arabs at the Cave of the Patriachs in Hebron by Baruch Goldstein or the murder of Yitzhak Rabin by Yigal Amir. The difference is that those men were acting on their own and were condemned by Israelis. Palestinian terrorists are trained, equipped, financed and hailed as heroes and are dispatched by their fellow terrorists and terrorist leaders. Your comparisons is foolish. By the way, the actions of Goldstein and Amir heinous as they are, would never have been happened in the first place if your good buddies like Arafat and Hamas had not been plaguing Israel with nonstop day and night terrorism in the first place. Those actions did not occur in a vacuum. Not that you have the integrity or the manhood to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 He doesn't equate them with terrorism though. I assume you mean terrorists (Hamas). I assume the comparison he makes is between the irredentists on both sides and Hamas as well as being terrorists are irredentists. Not by the way that there hasn't been acts of terrorism from fringe ultra zionists. Remember the murder of 29 arabs at the Cave of the Patriachs in Hebron by Baruch Goldstein or the murder of Yitzhak Rabin by Yigal Amir. Yes he does, and you are attempting to set up a false dichotomy. You mention two people. Two people do not make Zionists a terrorist organization. Hamas is a terrorist organization totally. And it isn't even what this thread about, but I realize that you have to defend Islam in whatever thread you find it mentioned. So, Tennessee is considering a bill that would prohibit teachers from discussing homosexual sex to any students before 9TH Grade? How in the world did any thread get off topic this bad? The only thing better than the bill as written is if it would prohibit discussions on homosexuality on the part of teachers ever. Then again, I am against sex education in schools period. That is the responsibility of parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 He doesn't equate them with terrorism though. I assume you mean terrorists (Hamas). I assume the comparison he makes is between the irredentists on both sides and Hamas as well as being terrorists are irredentists. Not by the way that there hasn't been acts of terrorism from fringe ultra zionists. Remember the murder of 29 arabs at the Cave of the Patriachs in Hebron by Baruch Goldstein or the murder of Yitzhak Rabin by Yigal Amir. Yes he does, and you are attempting to set up a false dichotomy. You mention two people. Two people do not make Zionists a terrorist organization. Hamas is a terrorist organization totally. And it isn't even what this thread about, but I realize that you have to defend Islam in whatever thread you find it mentioned. So, Tennessee is considering a bill that would prohibit teachers from discussing homosexual sex to any students before 9TH Grade? How in the world did any thread get off topic this bad? The only thing better than the bill as written is if it would prohibit discussions on homosexuality on the part of teachers ever. Then again, I am against sex education in schools period. That is the responsibility of parents. Totally agree. This is bill is a good start in that direction, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amor Posted May 13, 2011 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,194 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2011 He doesn't equate them with terrorism though. I assume you mean terrorists (Hamas). I assume the comparison he makes is between the irredentists on both sides and Hamas as well as being terrorists are irredentists. Not by the way that there hasn't been acts of terrorism from fringe ultra zionists. Remember the murder of 29 arabs at the Cave of the Patriachs in Hebron by Baruch Goldstein or the murder of Yitzhak Rabin by Yigal Amir. Yes he does, and you are attempting to set up a false dichotomy. You mention two people. Two people do not make Zionists a terrorist organization. Hamas is a terrorist organization totally. And it isn't even what this thread about, but I realize that you have to defend Islam in whatever thread you find it mentioned. What defence of Islam, search through the thread and find if it's there. My reaction was to Shiloh and his tendency to vilify anyone who disagrees with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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