Why the Same-Sex Marriage Experiment Will Not Work

[OldShep]

It's a waste to

I reach into a 50 year old storage crib and I remove a small dry seed. I look it over and over and it seems dead to me. Yet with Hope and Prayer I take it out side and plant it. Hopefully I chose a good patch of ground as I gentle lay it to rest. I cover it with moist soil and give it a little water and I go off to do the work my Lord would have me do.

I know I am not the force that will cause that seed to come to life and to reach out and start growing. Weeks may pass by before I even see the smallest sign of a sprout.

It is never a waste of time to plant a seed and you can never be guaranteed that you will still be alive to watch it grow, for we do not give that spark of Life which causes it to reach out to the light, form its dark place of rest; only God has that power.

ICL Dennis

[PGA]

It's a waste to

I reach into a 50 year old storage crib and I remove a small dry seed. I look it over and over and it seems dead to me. Yet with Hope and Prayer I take it out side and plant it. Hopefully I chose a good patch of ground as I gentle lay it to rest. I cover it with moist soil and give it a little water and I go off to do the work my Lord would have me do.

I know I am not the force that will cause that seed to come to life and to reach out and start growing. Weeks may pass by before I even see the smallest sign of a sprout.

It is never a waste of time to plant a seed and you can never be guaranteed that you will still be alive to watch it grow, for we do not give that spark of Life which causes it to reach out to the light, form its dark place of rest; only God has that power.

ICL Dennis

Very nicely said!

[Guest]

It's a waste to

I reach into a 50 year old storage crib and I remove a small dry seed. I look it over and over and it seems dead to me. Yet with Hope and Prayer I take it out side and plant it. Hopefully I chose a good patch of ground as I gentle lay it to rest. I cover it with moist soil and give it a little water and I go off to do the work my Lord would have me do.

I know I am not the force that will cause that seed to come to life and to reach out and start growing. Weeks may pass by before I even see the smallest sign of a sprout.

It is never a waste of time to plant a seed and you can never be guaranteed that you will still be alive to watch it grow, for we do not give that spark of Life which causes it to reach out to the light, form its dark place of rest; only God has that power.

Very nicely said!

So

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Sow

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isaiah 55:11

The Truth

And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Genesis 2:21-24

And Give Honor

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

Where All Honor Is Do

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

Or Not

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

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Believe And Be Blessed Beloved

Merry Christmas

Love, Joe

[Guest]

UF I don't have time to address your whole post this morning so just a little note, the Project10, to market 10% homosexuality, has been largely disproven. If you do some research you will see the modern reports down near 3% homosexuality.

I think you are misinformed. Project 10 is not marketing anything of the kind. They are a resource for the LGBT community that provides counseling services and health referrals. The only advocacy activity they do is:

We also act as advocates for our service-users, to help them achieve their goals, including: finding affordable housing, finding employment, changing their name and sex designation on official identity papers, accessing sex-change surgery, being granted refugee status, staying out of prison, filing complaints documenting discrimination they’ve suffered, and more.

I very much doubt this is any campaign to spread anything about homosexuals being 10% of the population. I think they got their name from that notion, but from their own website and their mission statement, they have nothing to do with furthering that notion, as you have claimed.

Their self-definition:

Project 10 works to promote the personal, social, sexual and mental well being of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, transsexual, two-spirit, intersexed and questioning youth and adults 14-25.

Their self-defined mission:

Project 10 works to promote the personal, social, sexual and mental well being of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, transsexual, two-spirit, intersexed and questioning youth and adults 14-25.

Through advocacy and education, using a harm reduction approach, Project 10 aims to facilitate the empowerment of youth at individual, community, and institutional levels with a particular emphasis on supporting individuals and groups who experience multiple and intersecting oppressions.

Services are free of charge, confidential and anonymous, and are offered in English and French.

There is no marketing of anything in those descriptions. From their website, they provide mainly counseling services and health referrals as well as support groups.

Project 10 At a Glance

Educational Outreach and Support for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Students.

Los Angeles Unified School District

Educational Equity Compliance Office

WHAT:

Project 10 is a program of the Los Angeles Unified School District that offers technical and educational support to schools for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) students. The mission of Project 10, in accordance with the District's Nondiscrimination Policy and the California Student Safety and Violence Prevention Act of 2000, is to ensure safe, supportive and welcoming campuses free from discrimination and harassment for sexual minority youth.

The following types of services are provided to District personnel, students, parents and community:

• Information regarding sexual orientation and gender identity.
• Anti-bias trainings on understanding LGBT youth, as well as recognizing and preventing discrimination, harassment and bias.
• Assistance and support for the establishment and maintenance of Project 10/Gay Straight Alliances.
• Technical support and referral to District and community resources to assist school personnel in addressing LGBT issues.
• Advocacy on behalf of LGBT students in interactions with District personnel, commissions, task forces, and student, parent, and community groups.
• Investigation of allegations of discrimination or harassment.

WHY:

The Los Angeles Unified School District is committed to providing a learning and working enviroment that is free of discrimination and harassment. Project 10 was established in 1988 to ensure that District policies and procedures protect the rights of students based on thier sexual orientation.

WHERE:

Stephen Jimenez, Project 10 Specialist

Los Angeles Unified School District

Educational Equity Compliance Office

333 South Beaudry Avenue, 20th Floor

Los Angeles, California 90017

http://www.lausd.net...c/project10.htm

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"Every young person has a right to a sense of self-respect and dignity. In public education we serve the needs of all our students. Some are gay and lesbian and we need to serve them too. We're supposed to be teaching them to live in an increasingly diverse society. This shouldn't be a place where prejudice is fostered. It's where discrimination should be fought." Dr. Virginia Uribe, Founder, Project 10 (LA Times Interview, 1984)

http://www.project10.org/history.html

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Stand

Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. 1 Peter 3:8-12

Fast

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

And Speak

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Matthew 9:13

Truth

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? Romans 2:4

[PGA]

The type of slavery God condemns is the harsh, brutal kind of slavery practised by the Egyptians on the Israelites in Exodus 1:8-14. God reacts to that kind of slavery in Exodus by sending Moses to free His people from this kind of servitude and oppression.

The type of slavery that was practised in the Ancient Near East (ANE) is something similar to what I would compare to an employee/employer relationship today. Your employee owns the time and kind of work that you are required to perform and in return to meeting this contract you are compensated for. It is an agreement that you enter into - you provide a service for a reward. You are indebted to your employer for the means he supplies in return for making a living for you and your family.

In the ANE a person impoverished, hungry, without means agreed to become indentured in servitude order to provide a better life for himself or for his family.

http://christianthin...m/qnoslave.html

Ok but I am free to leave my employer whenever I want and he's not allowed to beat me. Are you saying it's ok to own another human being but there needs to be guidelines? If they treated the slaves so well why did God have to set the rule that if you beat them to death you are punished? If they survive, there is no harm done in the eyes of God because after all the slave is his property.

Hi Stargaze,

Please give me the verse. In this way we know we are talking about the same verse. Then I will answer your question.

Thank you!

Peter

Edited December 9, 2011 by PGA

[Bocan]

I reach into a 50 year old storage crib and I remove a small dry seed

It's not a matter of a seed. It's where you choose to toil and plant. Try: 2 Timothy 2:23-24

My advice is based on experience but let God guide you. I've said my part. Bye!

[JohnD]

The simple fact is, marriage has been under attack for generations now. Today's depth of depravity notwithstanding, it is the eventual outcome of heterosexual mockery of the sanctity of marriage.

In the beginning God created the first unity / governance of mankind centered around the sanctity of marriage... and that is centered on the perpetuation of the human race (through procreation). It was not long before heterosexuals and homosexuals so profaned and polluted the sanctity of marriage that God was compelled to wipe the slate clean and start over with Noah and his family. Soon thereafter Ham committed what some believe was incest with his own mother based on Leviticus 18:8 as the key to unlock the language used as "his father's nakedness" and why it was Canaan the offspring of this violation that drew the curse of Noah.

Truth is, few generations on earth honored the sanctity of marriage until the New Testament / New Covenant. And we have been playing with hellfire with our ongoing love affair with lust... which leads to adultery which leads to divorce and broken homes and remarriage and re-divorce in most cases because the root cause of the problem is not resolved in fact it is ever getting worse as we all accept more and more depravity and perversion as "normal." We make a mockery of marriage with our serial monogamy and blended families and the undefended victims in it al (the children) aren't given a real chance to succeed from the sins of the fathers and the mothers.

And when the homosexuals beat the bushes to gain acceptance and to roll back laws against their perversion and to no longer consider it a mental illness... everyone stood idly by... we didn't have the moral capital to oppose it from all our vices and perversions of what God intended to be between one man and one woman for one lifetime...

Jeremiah 5:7-9 (NIV)

7 “Why should I forgive you? Your children have forsaken me and sworn by gods that are not gods. I supplied all their needs, yet they committed adultery and thronged to the houses of prostitutes.

8 They are well-fed, lusty stallions, each neighing for another man’s wife.

9 Should I not punish them for this?” declares the LORD. “Should I not avenge myself on such a nation as this?

[Valoran]

In the beginning God created the first unity / governance of mankind centered around the sanctity of marriage... and that is centered on the perpetuation of the human race (through procreation).

If we're going to invoke what God created in the beginning as a measure of what is good and right and what isn't... God didn't create crippled people in the beginning either.

Does that mean we should rebuke the physically disabled too the same way we rebuke the "evil" homosexuals?

[Valoran]

In the beginning God created the first unity / governance of mankind centered around the sanctity of marriage... and that is centered on the perpetuation of the human race (through procreation).

If we're going to invoke what God created in the beginning as a measure of what is good and right and what isn't... God didn't create crippled people in the beginning either.

Does that mean we should rebuke the physically disabled too the same way we rebuke the "evil" homosexuals?

Your problem is, God gives us a very clear definition of just exactly which sexual unions are permissible and which ones are not. He left absolutely no doubts about what was acceptable and that is only a man and a woman joined in a marital relationship. Period. No other sexual union is permissible. Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible along with adultery and fornication in totally unambiguous terms. God did not create homosexuals, and being crippled is not biblically prohibited. I fail to see your point.

My point was that God not creating homosexuals in the beginning has no bearing on the Christian viewpoint towards homosexuality, so it's quite pointless to bring it up.

With that said, I really doubt that trying to discriminate against people and take away a basic social right from them based on purely religious grounds is going to convince many members of the public. If anything, it's really bad PR for the church.

[Valoran]

It has every bearing on it since homosexuals, by and large, claim that they were created as a homosexual through no choice of their own and are therefore not responsible for their actions or lifestyle. That is 100% false. They made a choice. No one is born a homosexual.

There's plenty of literature from biological and psychological studies that dispute your assertion. Here are a few.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14146-gays-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html?feedId=online-news_rss20

http://www.psychology.org.au/publications/tip_sheets/orientation/#s3

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

There's no conclusive agreement on what causes homosexuality, but what is pretty clear is that it isn't a conscious choice. You and I cannot become a homosexual simply by wanting it any more than a homosexual could do the opposite. What IS a choice, however, is whether someone is homophobic or not.

As for being discriminated against socially, that is false as well. They have the right to live with their partner as long as they wish, and they really have no wish to marry beyond obtaining a financial benefit from such a union. They do not have respect for the institution of marriage. Their wish to have the right to marry is merely an effort to degrade morals further and make marriage itself meangless, as well as any kind of moral boundaries on anything. No "right" has been taken away from them, because they never had it in the first place.

Cobalt, you make the very intriguing argument that homosexuals never had the right to marry - do you know that white supremacists used to make similar arguments that blacks had no right to vote?

Who made the decision that homosexuals have no marriage rights? Not the church, certainly, since the church doesn't have the authority to decide who has the right to marry and who doesn't. If the church had that authority, they wouldn't need to lobby the government to ban same-sex marriage in the first place.

Can you explain how does same-sex marriage degrade morals and make marriage meaningless? Homosexuals are people, like everyone else. Their wish to be accorded the same rights doesn't necessarily need to be construed as an attack on you or anyone else.

I guess according to your theory, since pointing out that homosexuality is a sin is bad PR for the church, that Christians should just be silent about it? The main reason for speaking out about homosexuality, or any other sin is not to garner public support, it is because that is what we are commanded to do, scripturally. It isn't optional and public opinion of it, either positive or negative is not supposed to have any affect on speaking out against sin, in any form.

I'm just pointing out that behavior like yours only damn the church in the eyes of the public. I certainly cannot prevent you or anyone else from speaking your minds, but do I wonder what benefits are there to be gained from such hatred and intolerance, or how does it help the Christian cause. The Bible also tells us to love, forgive, and not be judgmental, but I guess that might be harder to adhere to; it's certainly easier to go on a homophobic ranting spree and then try to pass oneself off as a good and dutiful Christian.

Are you a believer?

I used to be, but I'm finding myself slipping away from the faith for various reasons.