Believer112 Posted July 31, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/06/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1960 Share Posted July 31, 2011 It solidifies your faith and makes it stronger. How can you tell someone about Jesus if you are not really convinced yourself that he is real. Faith is necessitated by ignorance. Why would you want to solidify it? What are you being convinced by? By what you don't know? By what someone else tells you is true? In the Bible Jesus healed the sick, brought the dead back to life. If you could do that, hey that'd be very convincing in my book. If all one has is faith without personal knowledge and experience, that's a little hard to trust in don't you think? If the only thing you are relying on is faith you can't really tell anybody anything that you actual know of. You wouldn't even know if you are misleading them because you don't know. You only have faith that something is true. You'd be asking others to have faith in something that is a matter of your own ignorance. In the Bible Jesus healed the sick, brought the dead back to life. If you could do that, hey that'd be very convincing in my book. By faith I believed Jesus as my savior, It wasn't until after that God showed me things. God saved my mother's life and my brother in law's torn muscle in his shoulder was healed by laying of hands. You have to travel in the right circles to gain this experience and knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer112 Posted July 31, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/06/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1960 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Because I've prayed for things and had them happen right before my eyes....... I've done rituals and had demons manifest right before my eyes in the flesh and had Jesus through the Holy Spirit save me from them and myself..... i've seen X-rays of a little girl that had an extra kidney that was not hooked up to her bladder that disappeared when her church laid hands on her and pray for her...... My faith is solid as granet because I don't have to take anyone's word for who Jesus is..... He lives in my body through the Spirit and we converse daily. If you don't have that in your life and are just going on hope, we should talk, for there is much that the Holy Spirit needs to teach you. You mean the word faith in a strange way. If it is something you've experienced then it's that/those experiences you are relying on, not faith. Faith and hope have about the same meaning. For example "I have faith my spouse won't cheat on me." "I hope my spouse won't cheat on me." I don't see a big difference there. However you seem to think faith has something hope does not. Faith, hope, trust can usually be used interchangeably. Anyway the point was that if you test something for yourself and find it works you are relying more on your own experiences and less on faith. This seems to be exactly what you are doing but say it makes your faith more solid whereas it should actually be making your knowledge more solid. I think a person who speaks from knowledge gained by their personal experience much more convincing then someone relying more on faith. Maybe not absolutely convincing but at least it carries more weight. Heb 11:1 (KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. By faith you marry him or trust in him to be a good husband and hope he remains a good husband in the future (yet to be seen). Would you lay your hand on someone to heal them of a sickness? Probably not, why? Because you don't have faith in yourself because you don't believe you can. Rom 10:17 (NIV) Faith comes by hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. Christians have faith because it's what we believe is to be true and come by hearing the word of God. The word of God has the things hoped for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakosis Posted July 31, 2011 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 290 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1959 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Wrong! Christians do have personal experience and EVIDENCE. Then what happens to faith? It's a simple question. This is especially so for someone who has been a Christian for any length of time. First, we have the Holy Spirit of God living in our hearts. Second, we have a personal and daily relationship with God that we KNOW and FEEL. We don't believe in or have faith in Jesus Christ out of ignorance - just the OPPOSITE. Exactly right. Faith should be replaced by knowledge. Faith is necessary for new Christians because God is not in the business of offering proof to each individual before they will believe. Faith in a teacher is necessary because understanding is lacking. Even if proof were offered it would not be understood. There was a time of many signs and wonders, but most still rejected Jesus Christ, and they had what you're asking for. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, and it's MORE THAN ENOUGH. It is enough to get started. However the goods have to be delivered. At some point, faith given has to be justified. One cannot/should not continue in faith with someone who does not deliver. Christians aren't misleading anyone when we talk about our Living Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. He is Absolute Reality to us and can be for you. We do have personal knowledge and experience, and you can also. Are you sure? You speak for every Christian? You know for a fact that every Christian speaks from experience? Think about this. Do not lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted July 31, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.88 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2011 Nak, are you a Christian? Do you have faith in Jesus as the bible describes Him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakosis Posted July 31, 2011 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 290 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1959 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Nak, are you a Christian? Do you have faith in Jesus as the bible describes Him? I am not a Christian. However I do have a lot of respect for Jesus and what he taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted July 31, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.88 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2011 Nak, are you a Christian? Do you have faith in Jesus as the bible describes Him? I am not a Christian. However I do have a lot of respect for Jesus and what he taught. OK, what is your specific objection to the Christian faith, given you respect Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakosis Posted July 31, 2011 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 290 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1959 Share Posted July 31, 2011 By faith I believed Jesus as my savior, It wasn't until after that God showed me things. God saved my mother's life and my brother in law's torn muscle in his shoulder was healed by laying of hands. You have to travel in the right circles to gain this experience and knowledge. I have traveled in many circles. I have even laid my hands on others where they claim I've healed some ailment of theirs. Belief can be very powerful. The human touch can be healing. Even scientifically this is acknowledged. I have no reason to doubt your experience but claims like this is far from unique to Christian folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakosis Posted July 31, 2011 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 290 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1959 Share Posted July 31, 2011 OK, what is your specific objection to the Christian faith, given you respect Jesus? By Christian faith I take it you mean the Christian religion. Christian ideology is a belief about God developed by other men/women such as yourself based on a interpretation of the gospels. Even that interpretation is varied among the different Christian denominations. Those who know of what they speak should speak with one voice should they not? This is not the case with Christianity. Christianity speaks with many voices. Shouldn't that alone be a cause to question? Christians claim the authority of Jesus in support of their beliefs. However I wonder sometimes if Jesus would actually claim responsibility for those beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted July 31, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Nakosis Are you sure? You speak for every Christian? You know for a fact that every Christian speaks from experience? Think about this. Do not lie. You need to read my post again because I already answered this question. I find it very offensive that you tell me "do not lie" - as if I've already lied. My previous post stands as written - read it. The proper adjectives and qualifiers are already given. Another post like this one and I'll ignore your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted July 31, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.88 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2011 OK, what is your specific objection to the Christian faith, given you respect Jesus? By Christian faith I take it you mean the Christian religion. Christian ideology is a belief about God developed by other men/women such as yourself based on a interpretation of the gospels. Even that interpretation is varied among the different Christian denominations. Those who know of what they speak should speak with one voice should they not? This is not the case with Christianity. Christianity speaks with many voices. Shouldn't that alone be a cause to question? Christians claim the authority of Jesus in support of their beliefs. However I wonder sometimes if Jesus would actually claim responsibility for those beliefs. So you object to the Christian faith on the basis of lack of consensus between Christians? I find this difficult for two reasons 1 - that we really do have a large degree of consensus on the major issues 2 - that Christianity should be examined on it's merits (historical validation of the bible and claims of Jesus) rather than on Christians Candice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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