Nakosis

Can I play? I would say no. However, since I said no that means I don't have to explain why right?

John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

Jesus said otherwise: And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." (Mat 28:18-20) Only the willing. Why is that? Because of Christians

2 - As to why study the Bible is to gain confidence in our understanding. IMO Christianity shouldn't be trying to covert anyone. They should provide a support system for those who have had a spiritual experience. Not everyone is ready to accept Jesus. However once they've had the necessary revelation they still need guidance. Of course a person could just rely on faith that this revelation will take place and do advanced study so they will be prepared. However that really depends on how much trust they place in those who speak about Jesus. So you study to help others prepare if they have the willingness and to be able to properly guide those who have had this revelation. When these experiences happen, it's like diving into cold water for the first time. You don't know what to expect. Not sure exactly what is happening or how to convey the experience. It's a shock. That is what the Apostles were for, to prepare the faithful and provide guidance for the "newly reborn". What I suspect is a number of the faithful that weren't actually reborn gained political power and authority and created a religious theology from their own wisdom. While they had faith in either the Apostles or the Bible they had no experience from which to relate their faith. From that assumption of authority they caused a lot of confusion even among those who had/have been born again. A lot of issues you have with the credibility of Christianity is probably a result of that confusion. If one is not born again and is not willingly faithful I don't know that the Bible can necessarily be beneficial to them. For example you and UF use it to attack the credibility of Christianity. There is reason to question Christianity's credibility. However you can't touch the credibility of the Holy Spirit, not for someone who has experienced the Holy Spirit. Probably why little headway is made trying to save those "born again" from their "God Delusion".

Which is fine? In that I think we are in agreement on this point. Of course, if God does exist, I expect you'll find out in the course of time. Then I'll say I told you so... Just kidding. IDK maybe 100%, maybe less then 1%. I suspect every soul has the same chance. Maybe up to them. Up to you. Not now but when you know/understand the choice you make. It depends on the quality of your spirit. I think we know what is asked. Love, compassion, charity, forgiveness. I don't know the answers to those questions. Not until we get there. I suspect what will happen we be according to the choices you make except you will know the truth. Up to you what you decide to do with with that knowledge. If you end up in some concept of hell or non-existence it because that is what you wanted. Right now you learn. You can choose sin would require you to give up that knowledge. It will require you to give up Eden again, like Adam. You'll have to go through this all over again. Who knows, maybe you'll find you liked it the last time around. God cares enough to give people what they want, even if they want sin. However sin separates you from God. Separates you from the truth. May end up leaving you in hell, but if that is what you want. You see the tragedy of material loss. Nothing is lost. Everything will be reclaimed.

Sorry, but what you say is morally questionable, at least according to my atheistic morality. You might find it a good idea to accept children death so that they have a safe eternal life, but I hope I do not offend anyone by disagreeing. I actually prefer to see children getting older, silly me. If you want to optimize salvation rate, according to your logic, it would be better to kill all children before they get old enough to risk their eternal life, don't you think so? Ciao - viole I don't think you'll find a standard among the various individuals/groups for morality in the sense of right and wrong actions. I suspect God has little concern for our individual concepts of morality. I kind of know what is right for me, I don't know what is right for you and I'm not going to pretend to know what is right for God. I suspect you may find to necessary at some point to forgive God for his actions towards man. I suspect God's purpose is for the overall benefit of man. Not necessarily for the benefit of any one individual. Whether you believe or not, I think this is clearly shown by the Bible. I don't think you can separate the bad from the good and claim God had no hand in it.

Actually Dawkins uses the title to sell the book. He is not even a physicist, he studies animal behavior. Certainly not an authority on anything else. However he uses the perception of being a scientist and inference to support really his opinion. He stirs up the Christians and gets a lot of free publicity. Nakosis, Dawkins is an evolutionary biologist and an atheist. He doesn't need to use any perception of being a scientist, he is a scientist. However, when he talks about god/s existing or not, he is not talking about science. Regards, UndecidedFrog His training was Anthropology, zoology specifically. I didn't say he wasn't a scientist. However being a scientist provides a perception of speaking on behalf of science when he writes his books. I've heard him be very honest about this in his interviews.

Actually Dawkins uses the title to sell the book. He is not even a physicist, he studies animal behavior. Certainly not an authority on anything else. However he uses the perception of being a scientist and inference to support really his opinion. He stirs up the Christians and gets a lot of free publicity.

I think wrongly so, but it sales books. You want to make money, write and promote a controversial book.

Just a question, is it the marriage and legalization parts or the same sex, sex part. I tend to think most people have issues with sex. Homosexuality being one among many. No particular reason to focus on it more then any other. If it were your problem that's different. You'd have to deal with it in the manner you thought appropriate. If you sought help to deal with it our any sexual issue that would be according to you to decide, not me or someone else. I'm not trying to attack you or anything, I'm just hoping to understand your reasoning better.

Should be fun as they would probably consider you a cult as well. Love to get it on YouTube.

Actually I don't find the Holy Spirit intuitive at all. Though it is easy to mistake ones own intuition for the Holy Spirit. However yes the standards are the standards. The Holy Spirits meets the standards of Jesus and Jesus meets the standards of the Holy Spirit. They are cut from the same cloth.

I don't know, there is just a lot of propheteering among some believers with regard to this moment of silence and the beginning of the end. The OP was a bit cryptic so I was just trying to figure out(guessing) the reference. Unfortunately I see they haven't returned to clarify any thing yet.

Ok I'll bite, what did God do new that the church didn't tell you about? And please reference this newness with scriptures, because God says He does nothing unless He first tells us about it through His prophets. shalom, Mizz Hi Mizz, Have I made you mad at me yet? Sorry if I did. I think I made a few upset with my initial posts... Umm.. Anyway I was under the impression that even Prophets weren't constantly in contact with God. Just wonder what you thought. Seems a little strange to think anyone would be in such constant contact they'd know God was silent for two weeks. Even stranger to think they would think this as being common knowledge. Hmm I suspect maybe... Revelation 8 1 When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. An end of the world message? Someone figured out there's a time difference between Heaven and earth. So half an hour in Heaven equal 2 weeks earth time? I don't know. I can not understand Revelations. I read it and read lot of theories about it. None of it makes sense. I suppose we don't know this is a Revelation reference warning post yet, so I'll just shut up for now.

I kind of doubt her intent was a political stance on abortion. It's sad, really, really sad and hard to deal with emotionally but what about forgiveness? People make really, really bad mistakes. Punishment does not fix anything. She needs help and counseling. She will have to live with her actions for the rest of her life. That's pretty punishing. According to some if she is or becomes Christians her sin will be forgiven. However many want her punished out of a sense of personal justice? Worse for her she is to be used as a political pawn to forward an anti-abortion agenda. While I'm personally against abortion, it's also sad to see people using each other like this. Who's willing to be forgiving...

As long as you know the author of the word written in your heart. Once written it becomes who you are. If you know the author then you should know you can trust the spirit given through grace. Botz provided an excellent passage from Romans that I think touches on this. His use and understanding seemed very appropriate at the time. I'll have to see if I can find it again.

Not me but I don't need the above statements from "God" as a basis for my morality. Hard to say if my morality would be the same if these statement were never decreed. Christian idealism has propagated itself through out the world. However my morality is what it is regardless of the commandments. Would you do these things, would you disobey these commandments if you thought they had not been decreed by God? If God had written one should sacrifice their firstborn would you see this as moral? You'd have to right, because it was written? Since you couldn't trust your own feelings on this. What you are trusting is your understanding of these words. You are trusting your feelings that you can trust these words. You are trusting doctrines of your religion. You can't have it both ways. You have to trust yourself to some degree. It's a break with reality to claim otherwise. The doctrine is unviable, unworkable in any sense. However it's justification is necessitated by a theological stance only. A child needs to trust their parents, whether their parents are actually trust worthy or not. Until they gain experience and understanding. However a person cannot remain a child forever. They'll never know who they can actually trust. Fairly you say you have the words in the Bible, you have nothing else to trust because you don't know what can be trusted. I trust this will not always be the case for you whether you understand that now or not.

Sorry, I like these issues. They are like puzzles of justification... Unchanging, what is meant by it. I think in the case of Jesus it means consistent. Or that God is consistent in his plan? will? God knew he was going to change his direction. He knew the Hebrew would worship a false idol, he knew Moses would intercede. God waits for these milestones to occur to change direction. Because it was necessary for them to occur to teach the Hebrew. However God would also know his course of action if these necessary events did not occur. God remains consistent and omniscient.

Love is the ideal source of one's moral decisions. However it's really hard to love your enemies sometimes isn't it? Probably best to make as few enemies as possible in life.

Ok, fair enough. You don't. But then how can you trust your values and motives when reading the Bible? How can you trust your understanding of what is written? If you believe God created you, shouldn't you have a little faith in what God created? Are you then left to trust what someone else tells you the Bible means?

Doesn't matter. If the source for humanity is amoral, then humanity should have no since of morality at all, and we should not expect a universe where any type of moral framework exists. The source of man's morality is what is written in his heart. Do you trust what is written in yours?

I'm not saying it is valid, only that it is a moral position. Many in the US have decided that murder in the form of capital punishment is moral. They've passed laws to support it. I don't agree with it. My personal morality may differ from that of the majority. That's why I see personal and civil morality as really separate. Sometimes though they happen to agree. The death penalty is not murder only if it is justified per your personal sense of morality. This is were your morality and civil morality coincide. Again obviously my morality differs from both. Not that they should be, they are. Just as yours are the basis of your morality. Maybe you don't agree with all civil laws like me or maybe you do. Maybe you are part of the majority who's personal morality agrees with all of the civil law. So Abraham knew God was lying about wanting him to sacrifice his son? So if God ask the same of you, you also know God would be lying about his desire for you to fulfilling this request and so make an earnest attempt to fulfill it? Do you think God actually turned Abraham's hand or did Abraham realize what God asked of him was wrong. What was written in Abraham heart? The desire to fulfill God's command or the desire to protect his son? Maybe it was a test, not of faith but of human morality. You say he trusted God. In the end I say he trusted what was in his heart.

I agree the Euthyphro dilemma is a false one. However I see morality as what the individual sees as right and wrong. No reason to think every individual will see right as wrong to be the same. If God has a morality, lets say to be the standard to judge against. We can't really know it. Any more then you can know my morality or me yours. People do pick and choose among concepts of right and wrong found in the Bible. Still that is according to their own concept of what is moral. Ignoring, justifying, excusing anything in the Bible that seems to them immoral. It's a fools justification to think that any concept of morality that man comes up with results in an understanding of God's morality by picking and choosing from among passages in the Bible. However isn't the belief that God will write the law on the heart of the faithful? So do we or do we not trust the morality that we feel? The truth is that we do regardless. Whether it's picking passages from the Bible to support it or deciding how to act on a daily basis. It really doesn't matter if people think to justify their morals, to some concept of God's moral standard pulled from the Bible, whether it actually is. They will act as if it were. If God loves the pious then it is because God makes them pious. I don't think that really answer the question of whether there exists a morality independent of God. I think not but I also don't think we should be so certain of our knowledge as to what God's morality is.

Got to put him away on the chance he might become bored again to protect anyone whom he might take out his boredom on. His morality shouldn't be the issue. It should be the threat he presents. That's what we as a society have to deal with. He make think it is morally fine to deal with one's boredom in such a way. However if he never acts on it you can't hold him accountable for his thoughts. So we don't have to deal with a person's morality. We have to deal with their actions. As far as I'm concerned it is not punishment. It's protection. It's stupid to think that punishment is going to alter a person's morality. It may alter their behavior. They will either not do it to avoid consequences or be very covert about their actions so they won't be caught.

I agree However being a Christian is not necessarily an indication of a humble heart. Nor is accepting Jesus into your life for the sake of salvation. The humility of giving up on one's knowing-ness. You know the path to salvation, do you? Are you proud of being a Christian? Are to proud to be chosen to do God's work? We know nothing about God Joe. We really don't. I know what's put before me. Not much else. I'm waiting for God to show me, teach me. I accept my lack of knowledge. Have you ever gotten to the point of accepting you "know" nothing? Real humility comes from accepting one's ignorance about everything. Have you ever done that? I know what I know, which isn't very much and even that "knowledge" I question. No covenant charts, no theology, no BS religious doctrine. God's going to have to show me what is what. Do you have faith in that? God will reveal the truth to a person according to God's own schedule. You can't really teach a person about something they haven't seen. They won't get it. They won't understand. They may think they do but they won't. Who can teach about heaven except the person that has been there. Have you been? I agreed to work for the truth. That's all I asked for.