Scudbuddy Posted October 16, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 16, 2004 Neb, So far in getting to know you, You have done away with the gifts, (not unusual) done away with demon possession, and now you are the first to claim that the apostles were the only ones in the upper room. You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into this hole of yours. You are going against something that is taught in every commentary I have ever read. I guess we should throw those commentaries away because you say so. The 120 just disapeared with the word "men". Problem is, women were rarely acknowledged. Problem is getting rid of the women doesn't get rid of the other men. Problem is living by your rule; where does it say that only the apostles were there? That rule really can bite you on your behind when you use it. Let's take a look at the word "men" in Jewish culture. How many people were said to be at the feeding of the 5,000? How about the 4,000? Look the verses up. It only refers to the men. So in fact there was probaly 20,000 to 25,000 counting the women and children. Women were less than dogs. Peter was talking to a culture that could care less what was happening to the women. Again, I have seen and commented a dozen times on your verses. You either don't read my comments, or you don't care. So why don't you find some other verses for me to comment on so that you can care less about those too. I am tired of the same ping-pong match here. You refuse to even acknowledge any argument. The best you can do is go outside of even the Cessationist theology to prove your point. Btw, find me a commentary that says that only 12 men were there on Pentecost. I would like to read that one. Remember I own alot of commentaries. Many of them are Cessationist commentaries. Your the first to say the bit about demons and the 120. Scholars who have degrees coming out of their ears coming from Universities way out of both our leagues would be lost at your conclusions. So I would like to read a scholar that supports your ideas. And "dunamis" which is the greek for "miraculous powers" is used several times in the book of Revelation to describe the church. 1:16, 3:8, 11:6, 12:10 "Exousia" is also used several times. That is the word to descibe Jesus after doing many mighty miracles in Matthew 9. It describes "Miraculous Authority" on Him. In Revelation it is used also to describe the authority on the church and on the two witnesses. Of course this is after the apostles rise from the dead and lay hands on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebuchadnezza10 Posted October 16, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 16, 2004 Neb, So far in getting to know you, You have done away with the gifts, (not unusual) done away with demon possession, and now you are the first to claim that the apostles were the only ones in the upper room. You are digging yourself deeper and deeper into this hole of yours. You are going against something that is taught in every commentary I have ever read. I guess we should throw those commentaries away because you say so. The 120 just disapeared with the word "men". Well I am just saying what I read. I could be wrong. Its just that where does it say that 120 received the gifts of the HS? If you look at Acts 2:7 it says that the people speaking in tongues where all men and Galileans. Who where all men and Galileans? The apostles. Also in vs 14 it says: 14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebuchadnezza10 Posted October 17, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 If the Holy Spirit is the teacher His saint is fully versed in knowing what their DIVINE Teacher is teaching. If a person comes up with an alternative teaching and then wants to argue over it, CLAIMING SOME WEIRD NONSENCE IS TRUE what kinda teacher are they under.... sure aint the Holy Spirit. People who argue have failed THE HOLY SPIRIT TEST, FOR IN HIS TEACHING, there is NO DIVISION. so, come away from any person who cannot ''get it'' and remember who their real teacher is. Beware of the snare of the fowler. darkness and light cannot mix. Anyway? Obviously wanted her ears tickled. She apparently does not want to be challenge what she believes but is comfortable with her faith. Just remember, God never called us to be a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebuchadnezza10 Posted October 17, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 This will be my last post by the looks of things. I would like to thank everyone that participated. I would also like to say that I will be thinking over everything that has been said with an open heart. I pray that you will all do the same. In love Neb His will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudbuddy Posted October 19, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2004 This will be my last post by the looks of things. I would like to thank everyone that participated. I would also like to say that I will be thinking over everything that has been said with an open heart. I pray that you will all do the same. In love Neb His will be done. Neb, Whatever you have done, you did not deserve that last post. We may disagree over these things, but you have been a true gentleman in your disagreeing. I am compiling my argument (or my anwser for Glorybees sake) as I can. I do hope you are not finished, but this has gone on for along time. It does sound like you are a student, and are busy in your finals. So if you want to continue, I will be glad to. Just post according to your time. David Scudder. P.S. Though I strongly disagree with your posistions, you are a worthy adversary in the debate process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnP Posted October 19, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 308 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/28/1950 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Neb. Posted: Oct 16 2004, 10:03 PM God never called us to be a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebuchadnezza10 Posted October 19, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 19, 2004 Oh, hello people. I thought it was my last post since people where not posting any longer. Guess I was wrong. (There Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudbuddy Posted October 19, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2004 Oh, hello people. I thought it was my last post since people where not posting any longer. Guess I was wrong. (There Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted October 19, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2004 Guys, I just want to intrude here long enough to tell you how much I appreciate you carrying on a debate for this long and staying perfectly sane, polite, and civil to one another. This is how it should be done! I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. I hope to see more of it. Well done guys. :il: :hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebuchadnezza10 Posted October 19, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 19, 2004 Thanx traveller, I think the reason that this has stayed so civil is because people know that this is not a personal thing. We are just trying to find an answer to a question. Right people? Anyway. Probably the best place to continue is where we left off. I know you have seen these vs many times before, but I would like you to answer the question below each vs. Acts 8:18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money Was the Gifts of the HS given by the laying on of the apostles hands? 2 Timothy 1 6For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 7For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline. How did Timothy receive the gift from God? Act 8 14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into[3] the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Why did Peter and John have to travel so far to lay hands on them if the laying on of hands was not nessesary? Let me know what ya think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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