Kabowd Posted October 6, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2004 I don't believe in OSAS and I have never felt more secure in my relationship with Christ. My security comes from the Holy Spirit, not from a doctrine that says I can live like the devil and still remain a Christian. Now look who's misrepresenting the opposite position. Rather than getting into all this again...can't we link him to the other one where we discussed it extensively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khristeeanos Posted October 6, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 109 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,278 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2004 Dime. I don't understand what you are saying. My security comes from the Holy Spirit, not from a doctrine that says I can live like the devil and still remain a Christian. You are misrepresenting others. Who has made this claim? Who has said they can live like the Devil? You have just said that this should not be done and you do it again. johnp. John, I didn't say YOU say this, but if I wasn't spending all day looking for a job, I could come up with at least a few websites online that claim to be Christians and can live any way we choose. Charles Stanley comes to mind. I have heard many quotes from him and have read some of his "eternal security" book and it claims some pretty amazing things. It isn't misrepresentation, it is sad though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khristeeanos Posted October 6, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 109 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,278 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2004 Oh, and John MacArthur as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTriez Posted October 6, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,478 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1972 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Bob. If they'd get off that for a minute ( misrepresenting the "other side" ) maybe they'd see it for how it really is ? I for instance call everyone an Arminian who doubt any one of the five points of Calvinism. I believe they are into works but they do not think they are Arminian, they call themselves something else or nothing at all. I often tar those with the same brush. I'm a Christian. One who follows Christ and His teachings....NOT one who follows a man and his teachings. I'm really not real concerned what a mere man said 500 years ago. I'm concerned over what Jesus says....period. Trusting in a man made doctrine over the Bible and putting church order & doctrines in front of the Bible....hmmmm, sound like any other religions you know ( need I say it :x: ) ? Sound doctrine is good....don't get me wrong. But sound doctrine comes from GOD, not from a man. And when doctrine becomes the focal point of your relationship with Jesus, then that should raise a flag or two....it did with me anyway. God bless, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orr v'emet Posted October 6, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2004 Dime. I don't understand what you are saying. My security comes from the Holy Spirit, not from a doctrine that says I can live like the devil and still remain a Christian. You are misrepresenting others. Who has made this claim? Who has said they can live like the Devil? You have just said that this should not be done and you do it again. johnp. Pretty much everyone in my lukewarm church believes this. They live like the world during the week and but on their "Sunday best" on sundays (and I'm not referring to clothes). Maybe not everyone believes this but it's a real danger in believing OSAS. I used to believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orr v'emet Posted October 6, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2004 I don't believe in OSAS and I have never felt more secure in my relationship with Christ. My security comes from the Holy Spirit, not from a doctrine that says I can live like the devil and still remain a Christian. Awesome! Couldn't agree more brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khristeeanos Posted October 6, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 109 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,278 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2004 Sound doctrine is good....don't get me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted October 6, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2004 That is just not true, geeze. Just because you believe Jesus holds your salvation securely in His own hands does NOT mean you believe you can live like the devil. C'mon. Please don't misrepresent those who believe in salvation security that way. Go here, where we discussed it before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orr v'emet Posted October 6, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2004 That is just not true, geeze. Just because you believe Jesus holds your salvation securely in His own hands does NOT mean you believe you can live like the devil. C'mon. Please don't misrepresent those who believe in salvation security that way. Go here, where we discussed it before... Tess, no one is saying everyone believes this. No one is saying you or johnp believe this either, please see my post on the previous page...I hate to be redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnP Posted October 6, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 308 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/28/1950 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Dime. It isn't misrepresentation, it is sad though. Why bring it up? What's it got to do with our conversation? Charles Stanley. I have just been to his website and checked out his statement of faith. There are bits below; God the Holy Spirit: Every believer is called to live in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit so that he will not fulfill the lust of the flesh but will bear fruit to the glory of God. (John 3:3-8; 14:16-17; 16:7-11; 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, 13; Ephesians 4:30; 5:18) Salvation. All who so trust the Savior are forgiven of their sins and born into the family of God by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. (John 1:12; Acts 16:30-33; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 1:7; 2:8-9) The Christian Walk. Individuals must choose to keep the flesh in subjection to Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, or it will surely manifest its presence in life and dishonor our Lord. (Romans 6:11-13; 8:2, 4, 12-13; Galatians 5:16-23; Ephesians 4:22-24; Colossians 2:1-10; 1 Peter 1:14-16; 1 John 1:4-7; 3:5-9) http://www.intouch.org/inside/about_us/statement_76838.html Is that the right Charles Stanley? Now where is this living with the Devil? I didn't say YOU say this, but if I wasn't spending all day looking for a job, I could come up with at least a few websites online that claim to be Christians and can live any way we choose. What are you trying to say? I could come up with countless dozens for you if you want them but what are you trying to say? Is Stanley a Calvinist? Is faith a "work?" I mean a Biblically-defined saving faith, not a head knowledge. Of course faith is a work. Where do you store knowledge if it is not in your head? It does not matter how you accept salvation but if you do you must believe Jesus died for your sins. How do you believe if not through the knowledge in your noggin? No Jake I did not ask that; Let's face the facts. First Timothy is filled with references to people who rejected the faith. Even John 6:66 says that many of Jesus' disciples turned away and followed him no more. I asked, "What happens to your forgiven sins. Do you get them restored to your credit or do you start with a clean slate?" johnp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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