Khristeeanos

Thanks for your comments! I've seen them change lives as well.

I have enjoyed Focus since the late 90's and I'm curious to hear what everyone thinks about them.

I once heard that 1 John 1:8-10 was suspected to be an early Christian "hymn" or "creed" of some sort and is inserted as a quote. Philippians 2:5-11 is another one and is often represented in the text as stylized. Can anyone speak to this?

These are all very great points and I greatly appreciate everyone taking the time to offer their views.

I'd like to resurrect this thread for anyone that didn't see it the first time around. Please give me your input.

I fully agree that we all still sin and war with the flesh. We always will on this side of life. No question about it. I do disagree that it doesn't matter that Paul didn't once call another Christian a sinner. I think the position I am taking up for this discussion is that while we still sin, that doesn't make us sinners. We have a new and good heart that is the place where God dwells and it teaches us how to say no to sin. Again, not that we can attain sinlessness, but that we are becoming more like Christ when we are with Christ learning to be more like Him.

But did Paul ever call Christians sinners?

Could it be in a different context though? Paul was in a unique position to snuff our the Church as it was gaining momentum. He hated Christians and attempted to murder them. He was present when (Phillip) was stoned to death. And he begins most of his letters by calling people saints and one of my favorite passages is Ephesians 4:20-24 where he gives instructions about how to become more holy because that is why we were created. I guess my main point here would be best asked instead of stated. Did Paul ever call other Christians sinners?

Maybe I should post this in Controversial topics ha ha. I am going to make a strong claim and I am not on a soapbox to prove anyone or their theology wrong. This is to gain clarification for what I am leaning towards believing and to test it against people who are engaged in Christian discussions about all manner of topics. So here it goes... I can only find one New Covenant reference where an argument can be made that Christians are identified by the term "sinner" or "sinners" and that is in 1st John 4. A large number of epistles start out by calling Christians "saints" but not sinners. Yes we still sin and we struggle with the flesh, but we have been made into new creations with the Spirit of God within us. We have a new source to draw our identity and desires from. In Romans 7 when Paul says he struggles with the flesh and sins pay special attention to the phrase he uses twice "It is no longer I that do it but sin living in me." which is opposite of saying "I am the sinner." When I say New Covenant I mean after the death of Jesus, not the majority of the Gospels. So what do you all think? Can a case be made for this or is this just total heresy in your eyes?

Perhaps I should have picked on favorite denominational doctrines so people would offer their thoughts.

I hope everyone here is doing well! I am putting together a list of songs that fit into many categories. Topics like Story, Friendship, Peace, Passion, Pain, etc. An example of Story would be: Big Daddy Weave - My Story Or under friendship Newsong - Sheltering Tree What are some that you can help me out with? THANKS SO MUCH!

Yikes. Thanks.

I was looking on ChristianAudio.com and they have the entire CEB available for free download on audio. I've not heard of this version. It said on the page it is a Methodist translation. Anyone have a copy? How does it stack against the other translations?

I remember years ago someone showing me a passage that may have indicated that Satan was the worship leader prior to his betrayal of God. Does anyone know what I'm talking about and where it is? I've looked through dictionaries and other areas with no luck. Thanks!

It seems like Jesus painted a very different picture of the Father than the OT prophets did. Or at least the people of Israel. Look at what they said when Moses came down from the mountain. They basically said "God scares us, you deal with Him." He is (not always, but frequently) painted as someone that is quickly angered by the sin of the people and rash in His decisions to punish them Jesus painted Father as loving and forgiving. When he was angry, it wasn't with the "sinners" or even the prideful (rich ruler) or seemingly arrogant (Nico), but with those that were limiting access to God and putting themselves as spiritually superior to others.

I am starting a series of topical studies on Identity. I have always been a little interested with this subject, but it has grown very strong inside my heart so I want to explore it from various aspects and perspectives. So when you consider God the Father what are some words and thoughts that come to mind? Of course any Scripture that comes to mind is even more helpful. I will place a strong emphasis on how Jesus revealed who the Father is rather than spend a great deal of time on how the Old Testament prophets painted Him. Not to say I'm going to exclude them by any means. But their understanding of Father was obviously limited. But in a way it would be helpful for this information from you all here because I am not as familiar with the OT as some of you. Thanks for all of your help before you even offer it!

WE are the church. The way institutional church organizations are structured are completely upside down from the way Jesus intended them to be. "The last shall be first." "Whoever is the greatest is the servant of all."

This is getting more in depth than I thought it would. And that makes me happy! I've been debating this in my mind for quite some time now. It is helpful and I have a lot to contemplate and study. So THANK YOU!

So maybe this should be altered to say: What if the words "soul" and "heart" are more closely aligned than I have previously thought.

These are all interesting. Thanks for all of you input. I do want to say that the heart is much more than just our feelings and emotions. We believe with out heart that Jesus is raised from the dead and are saved. We trust in God with our heart and lean not on our own understanding. Excellent discussion. EDITING BELOW THIS: You pray with your heart (Genesis 24:45)A hardened heart can overwhelm logic and emotion (Exodus 7)You can hate someone in your heart (Leviticus 19:17)Your heart can fear (Leviticus 26:36Your heart can lust (Numbers 15:39)Your heart can be obstinate (Deut. 2:30)You can seek God with your heart (Deut. 4:29You fear God with your heart (Deut 5:29)

What will it gain you if you gain the world and lose your soul? Words have meaning and I'm curious if we take the word soul and exchange it with a definition of something like "the you that you were created to become" if it would still fit. Not a direct metaphor per se, but more like a general statement that can often be used interchangeably. In the above verse it seems to work. Sort of like when someone is conformed to the world and doesn't truly become a mature, sanctified believer.

I guess my main goal is summed up in this. I don't have all the specific details, but here you go. One version translates a Greek word "sinful nature" while another as "flesh" and there is a rather large difference between the two words. As a Christian we no longer have a "sinful nature" because the Spirit literally lives within our hearts. The deepest and most true part if us is totally and completely holy. It is not our nature that sins, but it is our flesh. Paul says this very specifically in Romans 7 when he says he struggles with sin but it isn't HIM that does it because Christ HAS ALREADY set him free from that. It is the flesh that he still struggles with. So if you read a translation of the Scriptures (which is a copy of a copy) and it says we have a sinful nature there is going to be that part of us that believes holiness isn't truly possible because at our core we are depraved and desperately wicked. But that is simply not true. Holiness is possible. This is making me think a new thread to discuss this may be in order soon.

I'm not satisfied with a religious expression of God any longer. Debating whether or not a perfered version of the Bible is in fact the only real version and all others are in apostasy is fruitless. I did that exact same thing and I never once "won" a "convert" to "my" position. It divided people that Jesus wants brought to unity. The Church is divided enough. There is no real life in the Scriptures. Jesus said you search the Scriptures for life, but true life is in Me, the one that the Scriptures testify about. Jesus is the way, truth and life (not the Bible). In the beginning was the Word (not the Bible) The Word of God (Jesus not the Bible) is living and active. The Scriptures are the inspired words of God. They aren't life, but point us to the One that gives it. They are a guide for finding true relationship where Jesus can lead us. Jesus said His sheep know His voice and follow Him. God can and does speak to us in and through the Bible. But that is not the only way. He replaced our heart with one that He Himself describes as good and pure and noble and there He dwells in the Person of the Holy Spirit. That is how He communicates with us. There is a way of cultivating and nurturing that. I don't intend to dismiss the people or discount their zeal for God and the Bible. I respect your walk with God. But at the same time I cannot accept that God is a "one size fits all" and that we are doing Him a favor by insisting that we have the right details on our positions that are no where to be found in the Scriptures. The NT never once says "one day when people speak English there is only one version to use." Please don't take my words here as accusatory or like I have it figures out because I don't believe I do. We are all equal in God's eyes and are all in process with Him.

I started this thread with a comment about no KJVONLY and have zero desire to discuss it. This is exactly why.

Oh, and there is little chance of me reading any version of the KJV. No offense intended, but the Scriptures are to point us to God and guide our relationship with Him. Using a 400+ year old translation on a language that I've never spoken doesn't speak to me. I was a strong KJV-only person for a while. I had books to prove my point and even ordered the original 1611 version. Jesus is the Word, not the Scriptures. There is a Trinity that is God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Not those plus a perfered version of the Bible.