War of the Words

[Catsmeow]

Mozart's music was considered satanic by the religious leadership of that time. So was Bethoveen's. Music that does not fit into a particular taste of the time has been considered evil.

*big grin*

I'm in trouble...cause I love Classical Music. I get lost in the aroma of harmony and the depth of the creshendo of the musical piece I'm listening to.

I love Handel's Messiah, especially.

Ya'll can have the rest...I'm thrilled to sit for hours and lose myself in the classics.

:music: :music: :music:

[Catsmeow]

Well, call me heathen...but there's a few non-Chrisstian groups I absolutely love...

I've been a real big fan of Creedence Clearwater Revival and one of my favorites was "Heard it Through the Grapevine" (originally a Motown recording but adapted by CCR).

I have that CD and still love it.

Besides, whadya do with songs like, "Sittin' by the Dock of the Bay"? How evil is that?

Comon' ya'll ......maybe some folks need to get a life and not be so preoccupied with looking for demons under every rock.

Yes, we all know they're all over and the world is chock full of vile and unclean spirits but they've lost the war already and we have the victory in hand. Jesus won it 2,000 years ago and I'm already living in VICTORY!

So, I don't get bogged down with looking under every rock to expose evil. That can become as addictive as soap operas. You become like Tabloid Newspaper Reporter who only comes up with sensationalism instead of the hum-drum of reality.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Mariynn Manson has a bit of a demon problem, okay?

But there's a lot of musicians are producing wonderful music for our listening enjoyment.

I personally enjoy Randy Travis, who plays wonderful Country Christian music and frankly, it's the only Christian music I can get my husband to even listen to.

So, God can be glorified, be it country, pop or classics.....fortunately, God looks at the heart and not the external.

[apothanein kerdos]

Well, call me heathen...but there's a few non-Chrisstian groups I absolutely love...

I've been a real big fan of Creedence Clearwater Revival and one of my favorites was "Heard it Through the Grapevine" (originally a Motown recording but adapted by CCR).

I have that CD and still love it.

Besides, whadya do with songs like, "Sittin' by the Dock of the Bay"? How evil is that?

Comon' ya'll ......maybe some folks need to get a life and not be so preoccupied with looking for demons under every rock.

Yes, we all know they're all over and the world is chock full of vile and unclean spirits but they've lost the war already and we have the victory in hand. Jesus won it 2,000 years ago and I'm already living in VICTORY!

So, I don't get bogged down with looking under every rock to expose evil. That can become as addictive as soap operas. You become like Tabloid Newspaper Reporter who only comes up with sensationalism instead of the hum-drum of reality.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Mariynn Manson has a bit of a demon problem, okay?

But there's a lot of musicians are producing wonderful music for our listening enjoyment.

I personally enjoy Randy Travis, who plays wonderful Country Christian music and frankly, it's the only Christian music I can get my husband to even listen to.

So, God can be glorified, be it country, pop or classics.....fortunately, God looks at the heart and not the external.

That music will lead you straight to hell

[larryt]

SJ

First off, you completely ignored the question I posed in my previous post. You demand respect but deserve no respect if you cannot show respect. I guess I should quote it again.

Do you ever take the time to read what someone else has said before you answer. Here is the post by YOU that I was responding to. And you accuse me of not substantiating. Where do you come up with this. Make sure you have more than just one reference.

Time and time again in the Bible Satan approaches the front door and is never hidden in any message.

I found that funny that you would even think such a rediculous notion. That is why I LOL and said you need to read your bible more.

So that you can follow along my statements are in blue. Did you neglect this statement because you cannot find any examples?

First off, you made the statement we shouldn't trust psychology, it's humanistic, blah, blah, blah. Now....because you saw the scriptural support was gone...you've gone back to it.

-- I don't recall saying it was humanistic though it is. And I don't trust psychology. The point as I stated in the BEGINNING is that it is not a true science and that it contradicts itself all the time. You found a site that was purporting your point of view, by a non-christian by the way(1Jo 5:19 [And] we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.), whose eyes have been blinded to the truth. I showed you a site that contradicts your point. Cornell by the way is not some third rate college. And they have devoted a whole course of study on a false pretense? There must be something to it. Again, psychology is inconsistant.

Secondly, it's a high school (maybe college) research paper that uses theorist (not psychologist) as a refrence. I got my information from psychologist.

-- See above.

And third, the article talks against subliminal messages and that they're not effective at all. He even states that the only debate that there is comes from irrational people who want to blame their behavoir or others on subliminal messages. Thanks for the article, it proves my point

-- And his conclusion is that the jury is still out. Nothing has been proven, contrary to your assumption. And that is all it is: An assumption.

I see someone who is intellegent, you lack experience which you will get as you walk in this life.

Rom. 5:1

[Kabowd]

I'm trying to understand what any of this has to do with lyrics to Christian Hardcore music....

[larryt]

I'm trying to understand what any of this has to do with lyrics to Christian Hardcore music....

Tess,

That's "these groups were masquerading as Christian hard rock bands." Not hardcore.

LT

[larryt]

Greetings cat's

Comon' ya'll ......maybe some folks need to get a life and not be so preoccupied with looking for demons under every rock.

Yes, we all know they're all over and the world is chock full of vile and unclean spirits but they've lost the war already and we have the victory in hand. Jesus won it 2,000 years ago and I'm already living in VICTORY!

So, I don't get bogged down with looking under every rock to expose evil. That can become as addictive as soap operas. You become like Tabloid Newspaper Reporter who only comes up with sensationalism instead of the hum-drum of reality.

I agree that it is useless to look under the rocks for them but what do you do when they are in plain sight and even in the christians?

LT

[apothanein kerdos]

First off, you completely ignored the question I posed in my previous post. You demand respect but deserve no respect if you cannot show respect. I guess I should quote it again.

I responded with:

1) I responded to your post Larry and showed you why the application of the scripture you used was wrong.

2) The other scriptures talk about deceit, lies, and secret things. All of these refer to actions we try to keep hidden. The point in back-masking is that:

a) We don't know when it's happening

b) It's been proven to not be useful anyway

c) Back masking has been proven to be the least of anyone's spiritual worries

d) Music has been proven to be a result of a person's lifestyle and not vice versa.

Nice try though Larry, to say I ignore you.

I don't recall saying it was humanistic though it is. And I don't trust psychology. The point as I stated in the BEGINNING is that it is not a true science and that it contradicts itself all the time. You found a site that was purporting your point of view, by a non-christian by the way(1Jo 5:19 [And] we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.), whose eyes have been blinded to the truth. I showed you a site that contradicts your point. Cornell by the way is not some third rate college. And they have devoted a whole course of study on a false pretense

You didn't even read your own article Larry. The conclusion you draw from it isn't there. Let's look:

Finding out that an Ivy-League school like Cornell has a full semester course that tries to demonstrate the effect of subliminal influence made the task twice as difficult.[5] It was quite imposing to say that a course in a well-established university to be based on a false pretense, until I came across another course page in Cornell that declares subliminal persuasion to be a myth.[6] It is this confusion that takes part in causing people to accept and believe in subliminal persuasion. It can also be that people need a way to justify their irrational behavior by blaming the subliminal messages in ads, television, and music that persuades them to engage in irrational behavior. Maybe the idea of subliminal persuasion presents the possibility that limitations of being human and living a mundane existence can be overcome. In any way, the general public only has a limited amount of knowledge on this topic, namely Vicary

[larryt]

SJ

Time and time again in the Bible Satan approaches the front door and is never hidden in any message.

You have never answered the question about this statement. Chapter and verse please. You say "time and again" It must be happening all over. You can surely site several verses. Job didn't know what was going on. It was completely hidden from him. Jesus said that the thief does not come in by the door. You refuse to acknowledge any of this. It must be concluded that you cannot answer.

LT

[Eternally Striving]

Wait, back up. You lost me. You're saying that Christian hardcore has the hidden messages???

What bands were doing this? And by the way, hard rock and hardcore, could be the same style of music....unless you talk to people who listen to it on a regular basis, those people (such as me) will draw the distinction. Otherwise, there is no distinction, but that's irrelevant.

I agree that it is useless to look under the rocks for them but what do you do when they are in plain sight and even in the christians?

That's the thing, it's not in the Christians. And if you claim that they are, you are burdened with the proof to name the bands of which you claim do this. After you do so, I'll gladly address each and every band in either defense, or in refute of you. If you fail to provide these Christian bands, then your argument falls right then and there.

You must also define what you mean by "Christian band". Are you going off of a band that is solely in the genre of Christian music, or are you going off of bands that comprise of Christian musicians.

And should you request, I will be more than happy to provide you with proof of how NONE of the Christian hardcore bands are out to deceive.

Here's some information about this style of music.

Christian hardcore started to come into existence in about the mid-90s with bands like Zao, Living Sacrifice, Unashamed, Overcome. Living Sacrifice derived their name from Romans, and Unashamed derived their name from the fact that the band was unashamed of their faith.

The roots of hardcore itself comes from punk rock. Punk bands started getting harder and faster with their sound, which then led to Hardcore Punk. Out of hardcore punk came hardcore, which took a more "metal" bass line, and put in screamed vocals.

The original intentions of all spirit-filled hardcore bands (the term spirit-filled refers to bands simply of strong, obvious faith) were to sing honest and sincere lyrics. Because these artists were of the Christian faith, it was only logical that they sing about what meant the most to them (their faith).

Bands like Zao have prayed before their shows to just make sure to guard their hearts and make sure that they keep themselves in check with the true purpose of their music (singing sincerely about their faith).

Living Sacrifice has put in their liner notes the intentions of not only the lyrics, but the band itself. They explained that their music was a reflection of each band member's faith, and that they're simply singing what they know to be true. They also included the gospel message.

Unashamed has put in their songs an explanation of their own faith, and of their intentions as well.

Underoath put in a hidden track that expressed the singer's faith and his views. It was more or less like a prayer, hoping that through their music, they're able to reach out to their fans and listeners.

Now tell me, how does any of the above show intent of deception among these Christian bands?

And if you're just talking about rock in general, going back even earlier to when Christian music was JUST forming (this is back in the...I think 70s and 80s), the prominent Christian rock bands (among others) were One Bad Pig, and The Rez Band.

One Bad Pig formed in 85, and was I think a punk band that played Christian punk at venues and just talked about God to their fans. I've read that they had some pretty crazy stage stunts.

The Rez Band (formerly known as Resurrection Band) was led by Glen Kaiser (I think he's still around doing music, I don't know much about him). They were a classic rock band (with looks to fit) that based their songs off their faith and off Christ.

None of these bands, starting from Rez who formed in 74 all the way to Spoken who formed in 97 did any of the accustations that you've laid upon them. They wrote honest, sincere lyrics about their faith...just using a different style of music to do it with.

Your move.

Edited October 6, 2004 by Eternally Striving