wordsower Posted October 3, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Is that so, Wordsower? Tell me... How is looking for a sign any less faithless than those who require that they be intellectually satisfied before accepting the truth. I think you miss Paul's point, BIG TIME. Just reiterating what Jesus said: Matthew 12:38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Those are two frequent problems that Paul ran into while preaching to the Jews and Greeks of his day. He is not saying the world is stuck between two thought patterns. Hebraic vs. Hellenistic. If you are a Christian you should follow neither. You should not be like the Jews who seek a sign and see the gospel as a stumbling block and neither should you be like the Greeks who require wisdom and see the gospel as foolishness. Both are bad. I don't see how you guys are building a Psychology off that scripture in which "all" people fall into. Not all Jews require a sign and not all Greeks require logic to believe. You guys are reading way too deep into this and making a mole hill into a mountain. Actually YOU are the one who is making mountains out of molehills by accusing of saying what we have not been saying and perpetuating your lies. Your problem is that you are trying to comment on an issue that you do not fully understand. You misuse terminology such as "mindset." No one is talking about being like Jews and requiring a sign. The point was that Jews are "deed" oriented. In other words the Hebraic mindset does not believe what you say, if your words and actions do not agree. Jews don't care about what you say, they watch your actions to see if your testimony and life agree. That is what James teaches and the book of James is the PERFECT illustration of Hebraic thought patterns. You are the one who is reading into EVERYTHING that is said. You cannot for some reason lose your paranoia. You really need to get a grip on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Is that so, Wordsower? Tell me... How is looking for a sign any less faithless than those who require that they be intellectually satisfied before accepting the truth. I think you miss Paul's point, BIG TIME. Just reiterating what Jesus said: Matthew 12:38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. The accusation of what constitutes faithlessness just seemed a bit one-sided. Perhaps I read it wrong, but since you only included Jews looking for signs as a lack of faith, and not the Hellenistic desire for intellectual satisfaction as equally faithless, I just thought I would point out what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted October 3, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2004 Those are two frequent problems that Paul ran into while preaching to the Jews and Greeks of his day. He is not saying the world is stuck between two thought patterns. Hebraic vs. Hellenistic. If you are a Christian you should follow neither. You should not be like the Jews who seek a sign and see the gospel as a stumbling block and neither should you be like the Greeks who require wisdom and see the gospel as foolishness. Both are bad. I don't see how you guys are building a Psychology off that scripture in which "all" people fall into. Not all Jews require a sign and not all Greeks require logic to believe. You guys are reading way too deep into this and making a mole hill into a mountain. Actually YOU are the one who is making mountains out of molehills by accusing of saying what we have not been saying and perpetuating your lies. Your problem is that you are trying to comment on an issue that you do not fully understand. You misuse terminology such as "mindset." No one is talking about being like Jews and requiring a sign. The point was that Jews are "deed" oriented. In other words the Hebraic mindset does not believe what you say, if your words and actions do not agree. Jews don't care about what you say, they watch your actions to see if your testimony and life agree. That is what James teaches and the book of James is the PERFECT illustration of Hebraic thought patterns. You are the one who is reading into EVERYTHING that is said. You cannot for some reason lose your paranoia. You really need to get a grip on this. Cant make a post without making personal insults can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Cant make a post without making personal insults can you? I did not insult you. I just stated fact. You want to spread lies, and then moan about insults when you are criticized for it? Sounds pretty hypocrtical. If you want to spread slander, then you should be prepared for the response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted October 3, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2004 Cant make a post without making personal insults can you? I did not insult you. I just stated fact. You want to spread lies, and then moan about insults when you are criticized for it? Sounds pretty hypocrtical. If you want to spread slander, then you should be prepared for the response. Why is it that when ever someone disagrees with you, you claim they are liars. Isnt this childish? Grow up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted October 3, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Shiloh - I know you have every reason in the world to be angry. Face it - Jedi could beat John Kerry in a political debate - and I'm talking skill not content. The Church has been dominated by Greco-Roman philosophy for centuries. One can argue all they want about what should or should not be. The truth is that is has. And Jedi - You never answered my question about "the mind of Christ." Please enlighten us. How does "the mind of Christ" operate? What makes it different from "Hellinistic" and "Hebraic" thought? Please be specific and give examples. Thank-you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Cant make a post without making personal insults can you? I did not insult you. I just stated fact. You want to spread lies, and then moan about insults when you are criticized for it? Sounds pretty hypocrtical. If you want to spread slander, then you should be prepared for the response. Why is it that when ever someone disagrees with you, you claim they are liars. Isnt this childish? Grow up! I am not calling you a liar because you disagree with me. I am calling you a liar because you keep accusing me, neb and Yod of things we have not said. I wish it were a matter of simply disagreeing, but it is not. YOU are guilty of slandering me on several occasions. That is what makes you a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted October 3, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Shiloh - How about you provide a passage or story in Scripture and show the difference in how the "Hebraic thought" interprets the passage and how the "Hellinistic thought" interprets the passage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Yod, that wasn't nice. I posted my thoughts on Nicodemus to show that regardless of what mindset a person comes with, they can come to an understanding of truth. I thought it was pretty amazing that Nicodemus first came by night to seek Jesus is secret and later spoke out against his peers in Jesus' defense and then still after the death of Jesus, asked for His body realizing He was the Christ. I'm really sorry Words! All I meant was that we didn't want to turn this into a discussion of the validity of the Torah just because I used it as a way of comparing hellenistic vs hebraic thought. There was no connection between that one sentence and the rest of what I posted...and I "think" you thought there was. That had nothing to do with your thoughts on Nicodemus...but now that you mention it let me tell you how I see John 3. I think Nicodemus came at night because he wanted to know where Yeshua got His spiritual authority...without sharing that secret with other Pharisees. And I think he was only asking Yeshua for clarification with his questions. I mean, would you understand exactly what someone meant by being born again if you had never heard that term before? How does one do that? I see no insincerity or hypocrisy at all by Nicodemus' night visit. It was a matter of wanting to receive the same anointing and spiritual authority which Yeshua exhibited without being in the Pharisees club. Nicodemus was THE top Pharisee in all of Israel and just wanted to know the secret of how Yeshua DID the works of God. Here's another example of hebraic vs hellenistic....Nicodemus wasn't asking what he should believe...he was asking what he should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts