What a partial preterist believes

[Montana Marv]

Bold

Zech 8:2 - This is what the Lord Almighty says; I am very jealous for Zion, I am burning with jealousy for her (Israel). v.6 - This is what the Lord Almighty says, it may seem marvelous for the remnant of this people at that time, but will it seem marvelous to me? declares the Lord Almighty. v.7 - This is what the Lord Almighty says; I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.

Zech 9:16 - The Lord their God will save them on that day as the flock of his people.

Zech 13:8,9 - In the whole land, declares the Lord, two thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one third will be left in it. This third I will bring into the fire, I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, "They are my people" and they will say "The Lord is our God".

Zech 12:10 - And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him (Christ at the Second Coming) as one mourns for an only child.

Israel becomes grafted back into the vine at this time.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Guest shiloh357]

How you can think that a teaching that doesn't exalt natural Israel to chosen people status is anti Jewish (not anti-Semitic, Arabs are Semites too, and right now, a lot of Christians have a dim view of a lot of them) is beyond me.

First of all anti-Semitism is universally known as being directed solely at the Jewish people. It is never understood to be directed at any other people group. Amillennialism, and other views that attempt to argue that God has a "new chosen people" were derived from a period in church history where the Jews were seen as the emblem and object of God's contempt. They were seen a race fully rejected and cursed by God. In reality, they were simply projecting their personal hatred of Jews on to God and on to the Scriptures.

Views like preterism and ammillennialism were created out of that animosity to provide a theological justification for that hatred. They had to present the church as the "new Israel" that replaced the old cursed and rejected Israel. Suddenly, the church inherited all of the promises God gave to Israel and the "new heavens and new earth" became a metaphor for the church age and the "New Jerusalem" suddenly became "the church." Over time, after the Reformation and after the RCC had been defanged and lost most of its power, many of its teachings have remained in protestant groups. Amillennialism, preterism, partial preterism and so on are a continuation of some RCC teachings albeit repackaged somewhat. The connection with anti-Semitism has been lost, but the fruit remains. I can almost tell what a person's theological stance is by how he/she sees Israel.

If I believe in a teaching that (according to you) has roots in anti-Jewish belief, then there is the undertone that I too must be anti-Jewish for believing it.

People often hold wrong ideas albeit in ignorance. Holding to an anti-semitic doctrine doesn't necessarily mean that a person is anti-Semitic.

The facts are still the facts. I don't believe the popular doctrine, so I have to be the bad guy.

No one said you are the bad guy. But as for facts... so far, you are batting zero when it comes to facts. You overstate, revise and exaggerate history to impose your views on history. You honestly expect any one to assume that the libellus corresponds to the biblical description of the mark of the beast. The fact that you try to force that view on to history goes beyond absurd.

Incidentally, just how IS Israel going to fulfill 'a task that they have not completed yet and won't complete until the millennial reign of Christ upon the throne of David begins.'

It is during the millennium that Israel will be the light to the world God chose them to be. God doesn't fail. To claim that Israel failed is to claim that God could not fulfill His promises to and through Israel as He promised to do.

The Church has been bringing people to the One True God (the JEWISH God) through the Jewish Messiah for 2000+ years. Israel has been denying Him and claiming Jesus is NOT Messiah for the same amount of time. Sorry, I used to be a pre-millennialist, but theologically and Biblically, it doesn't make sense. I left it for what DOES.

Yes, but God isn't done with Israel. The story isn't over and the church has often been the reason that the Jews deny Jesus. The church has either engineered and participated in the persecution of the Jewish people or sat by in moral indifference while others carried it out for the last 2000 years and then wonder why the Jews don't receive Jesus. The church has been one the biggest impediments to Jews coming to Christ.

It is preciesly theological stances like the one you hold to that have been at the root of why Jews won't come to Jesus. That Jesus is coming back prior to the millennium is solid and is written in concrete terms and no history revisionism on your part is going to change that.

[Bold Believer]

And do you accuse me of being anti-Semitic, Cobalt? There's a laugh. Anyone who has ever read my posts knows I support Israel for being the most righteous nation in the Middle East. I don't support Israel based on the chosen people doctrine; we (Believers) are the chosen people and the royal priesthood (Peter).

For the record, Cobalt did not call you anti-Semitic. He said, and rightly so, that Preterism, partical preterism, Amillennialism (and I will also include Covenant Theology) were all rooted in anti-Semitism. That does not mean that every one who holds those views are necessarily anti-Semtic, but they all have one glaring thing in common. They all hinge on removing Israel/the Jewish people as the chosen people of God.

Peter did not mean to be understood that God had somehow transferred the status of "chosen people." To the Church. Christians mistakenly think that "Chosen People" means "favorite people." They misunderstand it to be some kind of exalted position or rank. That is a misunderstanding of what chosen means. It refers to be chosen in the same way your boss chooses you to complete a task.

Israel/the Jewish people were chosen by God to fulfill a task that they have not completed yet and won't complete until the millennial reign of Christ upon the throne of David begins.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 2:9-10)

This passage from 1 Peter is often cited by replacement theologians to prove that the Church is the new Israel of God because of the use of such terms as “chosen generation,” “royal priesthood,” “people of God,” etc., which were originally used to refer to Israel. My response to this assertion is three-fold.

First of all, simply using Israelite imagery is not sufficient grounds for claiming that a nonIsraelite entity is in fact, Israelite. It is not uncommon for the Bible in both old and New Testaments to use Israel imagery when speaking about nonIsraelites but yet they remain distinct from Israel. Dr. Mark Vlach correctly observes:

Yes, language used of Israel in the Old Testament is used of believing Gentiles in the New Testament. But similarity with Israel does not mean identification with Israel. There are occasions in Scripture when “Israel” imagery is applied to non-Israelites without these non-Israelites becoming Israel. Isa 19:24–25, for instance, predicts that Egypt would someday be called “my people.” Yet, the context makes clear that Egypt is distinct from Israel since Egypt is mentioned alongside “Israel my inheritance.” So, even in the Old Testament it was predicted that non-Israelites would someday carry some of the titles of Israel without becoming identified as Israel.

In Romans 9: 24-26, Paul by the Holy Spirit sees the purpose of God in the calling of the Gentiles and he bases this off of Hosea 2:23, which reads:

And I will sow her for myself in the land. And I will have mercy on No Mercy, and I will say to Not My People, 'You are my people'; and he shall say, 'You are my God.'" (Hosea 2:23)

In both the Old and New Testaments we find nonIsraelites referred to as "God's people" yet mentioned in distinction from Israel. What we do NOT find ANYWHERE in Scripture is any reference or even an implication that there is a "spiritual Israel.” What we do not find are any references to Gentiles being identified with Israel. What we do not find in 1 Peter is any remark that makes reference to a "new Israel" or "spiritual Israel" that displaces biblical Israel. Nowhere in the New Testament are believers identified as "Israel" spiritually or otherwise. They are a part of Israel, the Kingdom of God, but they do not displace, replace, supplant, supercede (whichever term fits), national/biblical Israel.

Peter is drawing from OT Israelite imagery to demonstrate how believers were to conduct themselves among the pagans. The OT priesthood and other aspects of the Israelite nation are used as object lessons as points of reference and a broader, more spiritual application is made to believers. Just as Israel was sanctified from the nations to be a holy nation and royal priesthood unto God, those concepts are reiterated in a more broad application with respect to Christian conduct.

• Christians should see themselves as an elect kingdom of priests unto the Lord. We now have the right to enter the holiest of all. As such, Christian conduct should reflect that reality.
  
• Just as Israel was a sanctified (holy) nation in the act of circumcision, Christians are likewise set apart for service to Christ by the Holy Spirit and baptism. The Church is a "nation" in the sense that Christians are bound together for the purpose of holiness even though spread among the various earthly nations.
  
• Christians are also a peculiar people. We are a private treasured possession belonging to God purchased by the blood of Jesus for the purpose of declaring to the world excellencies of His gospel.
  
• Christians should show forth, therefore, God’s praises as a people called out of darkness into the light and who are now the people of God.

All of those things are true about the Christian, but there is nothing in those truths that warrant declaring the Church as God's “true Israel,” or "chosen people," which replaces biblical Israel. Peter goes on to admonish believers as to their conduct and what their behavior should be like in light of the above truths.

How you can think that a teaching that doesn't exalt natural Israel to chosen people status is anti Jewish (not anti-Semitic, Arabs are Semites too, and right now, a lot of Christians have a dim view of a lot of them) is beyond me. If I believe in a teaching that (according to you) has roots in anti-Jewish belief, then there is the undertone that I too must be anti-Jewish for believing it.

The facts are still the facts. I don't believe the popular doctrine, so I have to be the bad guy. There are a lot of people who have begun to question dispensationalism in general and pre-trib rapturism in particular. I guess they're bad guys too. Well that's OK. It's not going to change what I believe in the matter.

Incidentally, just how IS Israel going to fulfill 'a task that they have not completed yet and won't complete until the millennial reign of Christ upon the throne of David begins.' The Church has been bringing people to the One True God (the JEWISH God) through the Jewish Messiah for 2000+ years. Israel has been denying Him and claiming Jesus is NOT Messiah for the same amount of time. Sorry, I used to be a pre-millennialist, but theologically and Biblically, it doesn't make sense. I left it for what DOES.

Romans 11: 25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

The Deliverer DID come out of Zion, Jesus is His name.

Christ DID take away their sins, BUT THEY DON'T YET BELIEVE IT. Will they one day? Yes. Until they DO believe, they're no different than any Gentile sinner.

[Guest shiloh357]

The Deliverer DID come out of Zion, Jesus is His name.

Christ DID take away their sins, BUT THEY DON'T YET BELIEVE IT. Will they one day? Yes. Until they DO believe, they're no different than any Gentile sinner.

That doesn't mean they are no longer the chosen people as a nation. You are confusing issues. Being chosen does not mean "saved." "Chosen" is not a redemptive term. So while they are no different in terms of needing salvation, as a nation, God still has a specific purpose that He has chosen for them them to fulifill and you have absolutely no Scriptural basis for claiming that God as rescinded that.

[Bold Believer]

How you can think that a teaching that doesn't exalt natural Israel to chosen people status is anti Jewish (not anti-Semitic, Arabs are Semites too, and right now, a lot of Christians have a dim view of a lot of them) is beyond me.

First of all anti-Semitism is universally known as being directed solely at the Jewish people. It is never understood to be directed at any other people group. Amillennialism, and other views that attempt to argue that God has a "new chosen people" were derived from a period in church history where the Jews were seen as the emblem and object of God's contempt. They were seen a race fully rejected and cursed by God. In reality, they were simply projecting their personal hatred of Jews on to God and on to the Scriptures.

Views like preterism and ammillennialism were created out of that animosity to provide a theological justification for that hatred. They had to present the church as the "new Israel" that replaced the old cursed and rejected Israel. Suddenly, the church inherited all of the promises God gave to Israel and the "new heavens and new earth" became a metaphor for the church age and the "New Jerusalem" suddenly became "the church." Over time, after the Reformation and after the RCC had been defanged and lost most of its power, many of its teachings have remained in protestant groups. Amillennialism, preterism, partial preterism and so on are a continuation of some RCC teachings albeit repackaged somewhat. The connection with anti-Semitism has been lost, but the fruit remains. I can almost tell what a person's theological stance is by how he/she sees Israel.

If I believe in a teaching that (according to you) has roots in anti-Jewish belief, then there is the undertone that I too must be anti-Jewish for believing it.

People often hold wrong ideas albeit in ignorance. Holding to an anti-semitic doctrine doesn't necessarily mean that a person is anti-Semitic.

The facts are still the facts. I don't believe the popular doctrine, so I have to be the bad guy.

No one said you are the bad guy. But as for facts... so far, you are batting zero when it comes to facts. You overstate, revise and exaggerate history to impose your views on history. You honestly expect any one to assume that the libellus corresponds to the biblical description of the mark of the beast. The fact that you try to force that view on to history goes beyond absurd.

Incidentally, just how IS Israel going to fulfill 'a task that they have not completed yet and won't complete until the millennial reign of Christ upon the throne of David begins.'

It is during the millennium that Israel will be the light to the world God chose them to be. God doesn't fail. To claim that Israel failed is to claim that God could not fulfill His promises to and through Israel as He promised to do.

The Church has been bringing people to the One True God (the JEWISH God) through the Jewish Messiah for 2000+ years. Israel has been denying Him and claiming Jesus is NOT Messiah for the same amount of time. Sorry, I used to be a pre-millennialist, but theologically and Biblically, it doesn't make sense. I left it for what DOES.

Yes, but God isn't done with Israel. The story isn't over and the church has often been the reason that the Jews deny Jesus. The church has either engineered and participated in the persecution of the Jewish people or sat by in moral indifference while others carried it out for the last 2000 years and then wonder why the Jews don't receive Jesus. The church has been one the biggest impediments to Jews coming to Christ.

It is preciesly theological stances like the one you hold to that have been at the root of why Jews won't come to Jesus. That Jesus is coming back prior to the millennium is solid and is written in concrete terms and no history revisionism on your part is going to change that.

NO, the story ISN'T over. And all Israel wil be saved, that we know, but that doesn't negate the fact that at this point in time, Israel is not grafted in and thus, no better off than Gentile unbelievers. It also doesn't negate the fact that God was angry with the ancient Jews of Christ's time and delivered them to wrath in AD 70. That's not revisionist, it's Scriptural. Even in Acts, Stephen laid the blame for Christ's death on the unbelieving Jews of the time. Premillennialism tries to make Israel out to be something it isn't yet: Righteous.

I'm sure that we'd both agree that you can't become righteous unless you believe in Jesus' atonement and resurrection. Do Jews believe that as a majority? Absolutely not. Their scribes and teachers still hold them back. That's why the Church is now holding the keys to the Kingdom. Israel had them and failed.

Jesus is NOT coming back prior to the Millennium. Acts 3:21 tells us this: Christ must be received in heaven until the restoration of all things. When does that happen: On the Last Day. The New Heaven and New Earth will come and Jesus with them. But not before.

[Guest shiloh357]

NO, the story ISN'T over. And all Israel wil be saved, that we know, but that doesn't negate the fact that at this point in time, Israel is not grafted in and thus, no better off than Gentile unbelievers.

You are trying to refute a point that wasn't raised. No one said or implied that they were better off. That's not even close addressing the issue I actually did raise.

It also doesn't negate the fact that God was angry with the ancient Jews of Christ's time and delivered them to wrath in AD 70. That's not revisionist, it's Scriptural.

What is the evidence that God destroyed the temple? The zealots were causing a lot of problems and the uprising in 66 AD led to the destruction of Jerusalem. Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple, but He did not claim that God would do it. To say that God destroyed the temple is conjecture at best.

Even in Acts, Stephen laid the blame for Christ's death on the unbelieving Jews of the time.

So why is that relevant to the Jews of today? Do the Jews of every generation have to bear the blame for the death of Jesus in your eyes?

Premillennialism tries to make Israel out to be something it isn't yet: Righteous.

No Premillennialism does not. It makes no attempt to paint Israel as righteous.

I'm sure that we'd both agree that you can't become righteous unless you believe in Jesus' atonement and resurrection. Do Jews believe that as a majority? Absolutely not. Their scribes and teachers still hold them back. That's why the Church is now holding the keys to the Kingdom. Israel had them and failed.

I still don't see that as being an important point as it not in dispute the problem is that it has nothing to do with whether or not they are a chosen people and whether or not God still sees them as His people.

Israel, despite what the amillennialsts and others in the past have said, is being restored to their land even as we speak. God's promises were not transferred to a "new Israel." The church wrote Israel off as belonging to the dustbin of history, but modern Israel is a testimony to the theoogical bankruptcy of amilennialism/partial preterism/preterism. It proves that they were/are wrong. It proves that when God said He would restore Israel, He mean ISRAEL and not the church. For that reason, there is no basis for interpreting the millennium as being any thing but what it will be. It will be a 1,000 year reign on earth on he throne of David, when He restores the Kingdom to Israel.

Jesus is NOT coming back prior to the Millennium.

Yes He is. Rev. 19 adn 20 tells us just that in no uncertain terms. Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 tell us what the millennium will look like, as does Ezekiel 40-48.

Acts 3:21 tells us this: Christ must be received in heaven until the restoration of all things. When does that happen: On the Last Day. The New Heaven and New Earth will come and Jesus with them. But not before.

The Bible does not say that everything has to be restored before Jesus returns. The ESV makes this clearer:

whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

(Act 3:21)

Jesus will remain in heaven until the it is time for the restoration of all things. Jesus Himself will be the agent of restoration. He will restore the Kingdom to Israel and will reign ove the whole world on the throne of David from Israel. The restoration of "all things" doesn't refer to entire earth. It is a hyperbolic reference to the role of Messiah restoring the Kingdom to Israel.

[Guest]

.... NO, the story ISN'T over. And all Israel wil be saved, that we know, but that doesn't negate the fact that at this point in time, Israel is not grafted in and thus, no better off than Gentile unbelievers. It also doesn't negate the fact that God was angry with the ancient Jews of Christ's time and delivered them to wrath in AD 70. That's not revisionist, it's Scriptural. Even in Acts, Stephen laid the blame for Christ's death on the unbelieving Jews of the time. Premillennialism tries to make Israel out to be something it isn't yet: Righteous.

I'm sure that we'd both agree that you can't become righteous unless you believe in Jesus' atonement and resurrection. Do Jews believe that as a majority? Absolutely not. Their scribes and teachers still hold them back. That's why the Church is now holding the keys to the Kingdom. Israel had them and failed.

Jesus is NOT coming back prior to the Millennium. Acts 3:21 tells us this: Christ must be received in heaven until the restoration of all things. When does that happen: On the Last Day. The New Heaven and New Earth will come and Jesus with them. But not before....

Like His LORD Before Him

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. Luke 23:34

Brother Steve Laid Down Forgiveness Upon The Unbelieving Jew Of The Time

And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Acts 7:59-60

And We Know That All Israel Will Repent

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart. Zechariah 12:9-14

At The Start Of Christ's Thousand Year Earthly Reign

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:1-4

And We Know Who Holds The Keys

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 1:17-18

Yes, We Know Him

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, Bold Believer.

How you can think that a teaching that doesn't exalt natural Israel to chosen people status is anti Jewish (not anti-Semitic, Arabs are Semites too, and right now, a lot of Christians have a dim view of a lot of them) is beyond me.

First of all anti-Semitism is universally known as being directed solely at the Jewish people. It is never understood to be directed at any other people group. Amillennialism, and other views that attempt to argue that God has a "new chosen people" were derived from a period in church history where the Jews were seen as the emblem and object of God's contempt. They were seen a race fully rejected and cursed by God. In reality, they were simply projecting their personal hatred of Jews on to God and on to the Scriptures.

Views like preterism and ammillennialism were created out of that animosity to provide a theological justification for that hatred. They had to present the church as the "new Israel" that replaced the old cursed and rejected Israel. Suddenly, the church inherited all of the promises God gave to Israel and the "new heavens and new earth" became a metaphor for the church age and the "New Jerusalem" suddenly became "the church." Over time, after the Reformation and after the RCC had been defanged and lost most of its power, many of its teachings have remained in protestant groups. Amillennialism, preterism, partial preterism and so on are a continuation of some RCC teachings albeit repackaged somewhat. The connection with anti-Semitism has been lost, but the fruit remains. I can almost tell what a person's theological stance is by how he/she sees Israel.

If I believe in a teaching that (according to you) has roots in anti-Jewish belief, then there is the undertone that I too must be anti-Jewish for believing it.

People often hold wrong ideas albeit in ignorance. Holding to an anti-semitic doctrine doesn't necessarily mean that a person is anti-Semitic.

The facts are still the facts. I don't believe the popular doctrine, so I have to be the bad guy.

No one said you are the bad guy. But as for facts... so far, you are batting zero when it comes to facts. You overstate, revise and exaggerate history to impose your views on history. You honestly expect any one to assume that the libellus corresponds to the biblical description of the mark of the beast. The fact that you try to force that view on to history goes beyond absurd.

Incidentally, just how IS Israel going to fulfill 'a task that they have not completed yet and won't complete until the millennial reign of Christ upon the throne of David begins.'

It is during the millennium that Israel will be the light to the world God chose them to be. God doesn't fail. To claim that Israel failed is to claim that God could not fulfill His promises to and through Israel as He promised to do.

The Church has been bringing people to the One True God (the JEWISH God) through the Jewish Messiah for 2000+ years. Israel has been denying Him and claiming Jesus is NOT Messiah for the same amount of time. Sorry, I used to be a pre-millennialist, but theologically and Biblically, it doesn't make sense. I left it for what DOES.

Yes, but God isn't done with Israel. The story isn't over and the church has often been the reason that the Jews deny Jesus. The church has either engineered and participated in the persecution of the Jewish people or sat by in moral indifference while others carried it out for the last 2000 years and then wonder why the Jews don't receive Jesus. The church has been one the biggest impediments to Jews coming to Christ.

It is preciesly theological stances like the one you hold to that have been at the root of why Jews won't come to Jesus. That Jesus is coming back prior to the millennium is solid and is written in concrete terms and no history revisionism on your part is going to change that.

NO, the story ISN'T over. And all Israel wil be saved, that we know, but that doesn't negate the fact that at this point in time, Israel is not grafted in and thus, no better off than Gentile unbelievers. It also doesn't negate the fact that God was angry with the ancient Jews of Christ's time and delivered them to wrath in AD 70. That's not revisionist, it's Scriptural. Even in Acts, Stephen laid the blame for Christ's death on the unbelieving Jews of the time. Premillennialism tries to make Israel out to be something it isn't yet: Righteous.

I'm sure that we'd both agree that you can't become righteous unless you believe in Jesus' atonement and resurrection. Do Jews believe that as a majority? Absolutely not. Their scribes and teachers still hold them back. That's why the Church is now holding the keys to the Kingdom. Israel had them and failed.

Jesus is NOT coming back prior to the Millennium. Acts 3:21 tells us this: Christ must be received in heaven until the restoration of all things. When does that happen: On the Last Day. The New Heaven and New Earth will come and Jesus with them. But not before.

Apparently, you haven't been following current events among God's Saints! Isra'el is BEING grafted in RIGHT NOW ALL OVER THE WORLD!!! I'm a Messianic Jew, and as such I have SEEN Jews coming to Yeshua` haMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) by the THOUSANDS!!! We don't have to wait for the Millennium to start! It's happening NOW! Jews are coming back to their Land from all over the world! Every year, the population of Isra'el has been growing from the influx of Jews from Russia, India, Pakistan, the Sudan, Venezuela, every country in Europe, and of course, the USA, just to name a few! There are Messianic communities all over the State of Isra'el and God is blessing them in SPITE of the opposition of the frightened Orthodox Jews who attack them in every way they can! It took time for the predominantly Jewish communities of believers in the first century to shift in numbers to being predominantly Gentile in population. It will take a similar amount of time to switch them back! But it is happening RIGHT NOW! They are learning and accepting that Yeshua` IS God's Messiah, God's Anointed, God's CHOICE for Isra'el's King!

Furthermore, as long as there are Jews who do NOT accept Yeshua` as God's Messiah, it is to the blame of those who were supposed to share Yeshua` with them over the last 2000 years!

You said, "I'm sure that we'd both agree that you can't become righteous unless you believe in Jesus' atonement and resurrection." Have you ever read 1 John 5:1-3?

1 John 5:1-3

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah) is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

KJV

Yochanan (John) did NOT say anything backwards! Consider carefully the wording of Romans 11:

Romans 11:11-29

11 I say then, Have they (the Israelites, the Jews) stumbled that they should fall (i.e., permanently)? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?! (i.e., RESURRECTION!)

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (i.e., God doesn't renig on His promises!)

KJV

Read through Ephesians 2 carefully, as well! Gentiles who become believers become PART of the "commonwealth (citizenship) of Isra'el!"

And, you are SO wrong about the Millennium! All of the prophecies of the Tanakh (the OT) predict a time when Yeshua` will rule and reign from the present Yerushalayim (Jerusalem)! You are too short in your time period! It won't be that "the restoration of all things" happens and <poof!> "The New Heaven and New Earth will come and Jesus with them"! You've got things all twisted around! Yeshua` comes first for He must prepare a world ready for the reign of the Father:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: (0) Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's (1) at his coming.

24 Then cometh (2) the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

KJV

The order of events is a little out of whack here to the Western mind because of the way that Jewish literature flows, but here is the order of events in sequence:

Yeshua` the Messiah died and was brought back to life as the "firstfruits" of the harvest. (0)

The next resurrection (since that is what this chapter is about) will happen at the coming of the Messiah and those who belong to Him are resurrected. (1)

Then, Yeshua` will reign putting enemies under His feet all the while until He has "put all enemies under his feet." THIS is the "Millennium," the "chilia etee," the "1000 years."

The last enemy that He shall destroy is Death itself. This includes the resurrection of the REST of the dead and the Great White Throne Judgment to follow. (2)

Then, when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power and all things shall be subdued to Him, then will come THE END!

And, it is at that time of THE END that He Himself, the Son, shall deliver up the Kingdom, the World Empire, to God the Father and shall also be subject to Him (God the Father) who put all things under Him (the Son).

Finally, God becomes all in all, i.e., He takes over the World Empire that Yeshua` builds during that millennium.

It is not until this point in human history, that God re-creates the earth and its atmosphere.

And, then, Yerushalayim haChadashah (the New Jerusalem) descends out of the New Atmosphere and lands upon the New Earth.

It is DURING the Millennium that Yeshua` will literally fulfill Psalm 2:1-12:

Psalm 2:1-12

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion!

7 I will declare the decree: 'the LORD hath said unto me, <Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.>'

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth!

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling!

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little! Blessed are all they that put their trust in him!"

KJV (punctuation mine)

It is AFTER all this, that Yeshua` is said to continue His reign over Isra'el forever:

Luke 1:30-33

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Ieesous, pronounced "Yay-SOOS," the Greek transliteration of Yeshua`, pronounced "Yay-SHOO-ah").

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

KJV

Premillennialism or Chiliasm is the RIGHT way to look at all of these Scriptures! Yeshua` will fulfill all these Scriptures as literally as He fulfilled the Scriptures about His First Coming!

That's what THIS "partial preterist" believes!

Edited January 21, 2012 by Retrobyter

[Bold Believer]

Shabbat shalom, Bold Believer.

How you can think that a teaching that doesn't exalt natural Israel to chosen people status is anti Jewish (not anti-Semitic, Arabs are Semites too, and right now, a lot of Christians have a dim view of a lot of them) is beyond me.

First of all anti-Semitism is universally known as being directed solely at the Jewish people. It is never understood to be directed at any other people group. Amillennialism, and other views that attempt to argue that God has a "new chosen people" were derived from a period in church history where the Jews were seen as the emblem and object of God's contempt. They were seen a race fully rejected and cursed by God. In reality, they were simply projecting their personal hatred of Jews on to God and on to the Scriptures.

Views like preterism and ammillennialism were created out of that animosity to provide a theological justification for that hatred. They had to present the church as the "new Israel" that replaced the old cursed and rejected Israel. Suddenly, the church inherited all of the promises God gave to Israel and the "new heavens and new earth" became a metaphor for the church age and the "New Jerusalem" suddenly became "the church." Over time, after the Reformation and after the RCC had been defanged and lost most of its power, many of its teachings have remained in protestant groups. Amillennialism, preterism, partial preterism and so on are a continuation of some RCC teachings albeit repackaged somewhat. The connection with anti-Semitism has been lost, but the fruit remains. I can almost tell what a person's theological stance is by how he/she sees Israel.

If I believe in a teaching that (according to you) has roots in anti-Jewish belief, then there is the undertone that I too must be anti-Jewish for believing it.

People often hold wrong ideas albeit in ignorance. Holding to an anti-semitic doctrine doesn't necessarily mean that a person is anti-Semitic.

The facts are still the facts. I don't believe the popular doctrine, so I have to be the bad guy.

No one said you are the bad guy. But as for facts... so far, you are batting zero when it comes to facts. You overstate, revise and exaggerate history to impose your views on history. You honestly expect any one to assume that the libellus corresponds to the biblical description of the mark of the beast. The fact that you try to force that view on to history goes beyond absurd.

Incidentally, just how IS Israel going to fulfill 'a task that they have not completed yet and won't complete until the millennial reign of Christ upon the throne of David begins.'

It is during the millennium that Israel will be the light to the world God chose them to be. God doesn't fail. To claim that Israel failed is to claim that God could not fulfill His promises to and through Israel as He promised to do.

The Church has been bringing people to the One True God (the JEWISH God) through the Jewish Messiah for 2000+ years. Israel has been denying Him and claiming Jesus is NOT Messiah for the same amount of time. Sorry, I used to be a pre-millennialist, but theologically and Biblically, it doesn't make sense. I left it for what DOES.

Yes, but God isn't done with Israel. The story isn't over and the church has often been the reason that the Jews deny Jesus. The church has either engineered and participated in the persecution of the Jewish people or sat by in moral indifference while others carried it out for the last 2000 years and then wonder why the Jews don't receive Jesus. The church has been one the biggest impediments to Jews coming to Christ.

It is preciesly theological stances like the one you hold to that have been at the root of why Jews won't come to Jesus. That Jesus is coming back prior to the millennium is solid and is written in concrete terms and no history revisionism on your part is going to change that.

NO, the story ISN'T over. And all Israel wil be saved, that we know, but that doesn't negate the fact that at this point in time, Israel is not grafted in and thus, no better off than Gentile unbelievers. It also doesn't negate the fact that God was angry with the ancient Jews of Christ's time and delivered them to wrath in AD 70. That's not revisionist, it's Scriptural. Even in Acts, Stephen laid the blame for Christ's death on the unbelieving Jews of the time. Premillennialism tries to make Israel out to be something it isn't yet: Righteous.

I'm sure that we'd both agree that you can't become righteous unless you believe in Jesus' atonement and resurrection. Do Jews believe that as a majority? Absolutely not. Their scribes and teachers still hold them back. That's why the Church is now holding the keys to the Kingdom. Israel had them and failed.

Jesus is NOT coming back prior to the Millennium. Acts 3:21 tells us this: Christ must be received in heaven until the restoration of all things. When does that happen: On the Last Day. The New Heaven and New Earth will come and Jesus with them. But not before.

Apparently, you haven't been following current events among God's Saints! Isra'el is BEING grafted in RIGHT NOW ALL OVER THE WORLD!!! I'm a Messianic Jew, and as such I have SEEN Jews coming to Yeshua` haMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) by the THOUSANDS!!! We don't have to wait for the Millennium to start! It's happening NOW! Jews are coming back to their Land from all over the world! Every year, the population of Isra'el has been growing from the influx of Jews from Russia, India, Pakistan, the Sudan, Venezuela, every country in Europe, and of course, the USA, just to name a few! There are Messianic communities all over the State of Isra'el and God is blessing them in SPITE of the opposition of the frightened Orthodox Jews who attack them in every way they can! It took time for the predominantly Jewish communities of believers in the first century to shift in numbers to being predominantly Gentile in population. It will take a similar amount of time to switch them back! But it is happening RIGHT NOW! They are learning and accepting that Yeshua` IS God's Messiah, God's Anointed, God's CHOICE for Isra'el's King!

Furthermore, as long as there are Jews who do NOT accept Yeshua` as God's Messiah, it is to the blame of those who were supposed to share Yeshua` with them over the last 2000 years!

You said, "I'm sure that we'd both agree that you can't become righteous unless you believe in Jesus' atonement and resurrection." Have you ever read 1 John 5:1-3?

1 John 5:1-3

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah) is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

KJV

Yochanan (John) did NOT say anything backwards! Consider carefully the wording of Romans 11:

Romans 11:11-29

11 I say then, Have they (the Israelites, the Jews) stumbled that they should fall (i.e., permanently)? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?! (i.e., RESURRECTION!)

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (i.e., God doesn't renig on His promises!)

KJV

Read through Ephesians 2 carefully, as well! Gentiles who become believers become PART of the "commonwealth (citizenship) of Isra'el!"

And, you are SO wrong about the Millennium! All of the prophecies of the Tanakh (the OT) predict a time when Yeshua` will rule and reign from the present Yerushalayim (Jerusalem)! You are too short in your time period! It won't be that "the restoration of all things" happens and <poof!> "The New Heaven and New Earth will come and Jesus with them"! You've got things all twisted around! Yeshua` comes first for He must prepare a world ready for the reign of the Father:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: (0) Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's (1) at his coming.

24 Then cometh (2) the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

KJV

The order of events is a little out of whack here to the Western mind because of the way that Jewish literature flows, but here is the order of events in sequence:

Yeshua` the Messiah died and was brought back to life as the "firstfruits" of the harvest. (0)

The next resurrection (since that is what this chapter is about) will happen at the coming of the Messiah and those who belong to Him are resurrected. (1)

Then, Yeshua` will reign putting enemies under His feet all the while until He has "put all enemies under his feet." THIS is the "Millennium," the "chilia etee," the "1000 years."

The last enemy that He shall destroy is Death itself. This includes the resurrection of the REST of the dead and the Great White Throne Judgment to follow. (2)

Then, when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power and all things shall be subdued to Him, then will come THE END!

And, it is at that time of THE END that He Himself, the Son, shall deliver up the Kingdom, the World Empire, to God the Father and shall also be subject to Him (God the Father) who put all things under Him (the Son).

Finally, God becomes all in all, i.e., He takes over the World Empire that Yeshua` builds during that millennium.

It is not until this point in human history, that God re-creates the earth and its atmosphere.

And, then, Yerushalayim haChadashah (the New Jerusalem) descends out of the New Atmosphere and lands upon the New Earth.

It is DURING the Millennium that Yeshua` will literally fulfill Psalm 2:1-12:

Psalm 2:1-12

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion!

7 I will declare the decree: 'the LORD hath said unto me, <Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.>'

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth!

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling!

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little! Blessed are all they that put their trust in him!"

KJV (punctuation mine)

It is AFTER all this, that Yeshua` is said to continue His reign over Isra'el forever:

Luke 1:30-33

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Ieesous, pronounced "Yay-SOOS," the Greek transliteration of Yeshua`, pronounced "Yay-SHOO-ah").

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

KJV

Premillennialism or Chiliasm is the RIGHT way to look at all of these Scriptures! Yeshua` will fulfill all these Scriptures as literally as He fulfilled the Scriptures about His First Coming!

That's what THIS "partial preterist" believes!

No need to translate the Hebrew for me, mo ach. My Evreet is half decent at least, LOL. Unfortunately, I don't read Hebrew, I need it transliterated to English letters. Shabbat shalom to you as well.

There is ONE WAY to God. Through the door. Y'shua ha Moschiach said that He was the door. Keeping the commandments will not save you. Rebbe Shaul told us that. The commandments are not keepable by the flesh.

Y'shua was given the throne of His father David at the Ascension. He has received that throne already. He rules the world from the New Jerusalem, which is in heaven. The knowledge of the LORD covers the earth as the waters cover the sea now. There are few places one can't go where Y'shua has never been heard of.

I am glad to hear that the ingrafting is taking place. One hears this or that, but rumors abound of many things, so I take them with a grain of salt.

I hate to disagree with you, but pre-millennialism is incorrect. You are welcome to believe as you wish, but you're missing out.

[Bold Believer]

NO, the story ISN'T over. And all Israel wil be saved, that we know, but that doesn't negate the fact that at this point in time, Israel is not grafted in and thus, no better off than Gentile unbelievers.

You are trying to refute a point that wasn't raised. No one said or implied that they were better off. That's not even close addressing the issue I actually did raise.

It also doesn't negate the fact that God was angry with the ancient Jews of Christ's time and delivered them to wrath in AD 70. That's not revisionist, it's Scriptural.

What is the evidence that God destroyed the temple? The zealots were causing a lot of problems and the uprising in 66 AD led to the destruction of Jerusalem. Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple, but He did not claim that God would do it. To say that God destroyed the temple is conjecture at best.

Even in Acts, Stephen laid the blame for Christ's death on the unbelieving Jews of the time.

So why is that relevant to the Jews of today? Do the Jews of every generation have to bear the blame for the death of Jesus in your eyes?

Premillennialism tries to make Israel out to be something it isn't yet: Righteous.

No Premillennialism does not. It makes no attempt to paint Israel as righteous.

I'm sure that we'd both agree that you can't become righteous unless you believe in Jesus' atonement and resurrection. Do Jews believe that as a majority? Absolutely not. Their scribes and teachers still hold them back. That's why the Church is now holding the keys to the Kingdom. Israel had them and failed.

I still don't see that as being an important point as it not in dispute the problem is that it has nothing to do with whether or not they are a chosen people and whether or not God still sees them as His people.

Israel, despite what the amillennialsts and others in the past have said, is being restored to their land even as we speak. God's promises were not transferred to a "new Israel." The church wrote Israel off as belonging to the dustbin of history, but modern Israel is a testimony to the theoogical bankruptcy of amilennialism/partial preterism/preterism. It proves that they were/are wrong. It proves that when God said He would restore Israel, He mean ISRAEL and not the church. For that reason, there is no basis for interpreting the millennium as being any thing but what it will be. It will be a 1,000 year reign on earth on he throne of David, when He restores the Kingdom to Israel.

Jesus is NOT coming back prior to the Millennium.

Yes He is. Rev. 19 adn 20 tells us just that in no uncertain terms. Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 tell us what the millennium will look like, as does Ezekiel 40-48.

Acts 3:21 tells us this: Christ must be received in heaven until the restoration of all things. When does that happen: On the Last Day. The New Heaven and New Earth will come and Jesus with them. But not before.

The Bible does not say that everything has to be restored before Jesus returns. The ESV makes this clearer:

whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

(Act 3:21)

Jesus will remain in heaven until the it is time for the restoration of all things. Jesus Himself will be the agent of restoration. He will restore the Kingdom to Israel and will reign ove the whole world on the throne of David from Israel. The restoration of "all things" doesn't refer to entire earth. It is a hyperbolic reference to the role of Messiah restoring the Kingdom to Israel.

The evidence that God caused the destruction of the temple in 70 AD is the fact that the Messiah stated that it would happen. The words "Your house is left to you desolate" are pretty plain. Furthermore, he also stated in Luke 21:22 these words:

Luk 21:22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.

Jesus just told the disciples that when they see Jerusalem surrounded by armies they need to get out, the time of its desolation is near. He has equated this with the prophecy of Daniel. He's putting the stamp of God on what is going to take place. What could be more plain?