Saturday or Sunday

[WailingWall]

For all her doctrinal faults as a member of the Christian Science sect, my aunt had a good saying - "Every day is Christmas day, because Jesus is born into someone's heart every day." This is a thousand times more important than "observing the sabbath", which Jesus did because he was a Jew, not to endorse legalism.

Jesus did endorse what you refer to as legalism.

JOHN 14 [15] IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If you love Him and wish to recieve the comforter (Holy Spirit)

Speaking of legalism. I cant imagine standing before Christ and saying, save me Lord im an illegalist, i did nothing you commanded me to do

EPH.2 [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[WailingWall]

its an assumption so I could be really wrong could you just clarify for me how you see Jews and gentiles being in different covenants? And please while you are at it can you find me a covenant made with gentiles, can you find me a covenant made with a gentile church?

shalom,

Mizz

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Not different covenants. The covenants were givin to Israel only. We were once strangers from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile strangers mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

[WailingWall]

More proof that Eph.2 means what it says

GALATIANS 3[10] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[11] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[12] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[13] CHRIST HATH REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:[14] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; THAT WE MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH.

Christ did not come to destroy the law but came to redeem us from the curse of the law that we might recieve the promise of the spirit through FAITH. BUT...

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This scripture says what it says. Before faith came to each and everyone of us, we are under the law (10 commandments). Then the scripture goes on to say the same thing again (in case you missed it the 1st time). We are under the law (our schoolmaster) UNTIL we are justified by faith. Faith is not something that you mysteriously attain attain at birth. So, according to this scripture you are kept under the law of the 10 commandments (the schoolmaster) until you are justified by faith in Christ. No shortcuts. Then there is no condemnation. After we have been brought to faith in Christ, do we then make void the law or are we to still be keeping Gods law?

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

Just because we have attained faith through the Word are we now to “do away” with Gods 10 commandments? GOD FORBID!

REV. 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and THE FAITH OF JESUS.

FAITH AND THE COMMANDMENTS. Sometimes its hard not to believe what youve been taught all these years. But the scriptures will come to pass as written

[His_disciple3]

why Not Monday or Thursday? why put a law that would limit us to give to the Lord? why limit time within a day. even with tithe there is a set limit, so do we break the law and displease God if we give 20%. now before you say because God said so, remember we are no longer under the Law, and for those that want to go back under the law of the Sabbath, most really need to go back and study the law of the Sabbath, there was a set distance of travel, you were allowed to do on the Sabbath, and if one went over that limit, the sentence was death by stoning. so for all those that want to go back under the law of the seventh day. then get your stones out and ready. For I will be the first in line that you will have to stone. Because scriptures also tells us that if we go back under the law, we fall from grace, and I myself would rather die, being under grace than to live, being under the law, that Jesus Christ set us free from.

Edited September 2, 2012 by His_disciple3

[ncn]

as the matter involves both Jewish and Christians and as Paul stated that is is not right to push or force gentile Christians to abide by Jewish ways that gentile Christians were never expected to live by , so the Jewish still abide by the Jewish covenant and the gentile Christians abide in Christ and Christ rose from the grave on Sunday

The original jewish christians observed Sabbath as the Lord commanded. The "church" (specifically christian religious institution separated from Israel in the early centuries) observes Sunday in obedience to the Catholic Church. It is the mark of their authority over you.

But why either/or? Let's observe both Saturday and Sunday! Then Monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, and friday! There are no restrictions about when we can gather for fellowship, study, or worship.

.

Amen! Too many Christians "do" Sunday and that is all they do.....

Amen!

As a wise old mod in chat once said; and never tires of saying it... (Old er,,cough, cough)

"What have you done today or Jesus?"

"When you go to bed, ask yourself, " What have I done for Jesus today?"

I just love Laura, speaks her mind and just hope she wont use the on me for using poetic license and quoting her.

Wisdom in her words for all of us.

[WailingWall]

Acts 15

¹⁷ that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,

even all the Gentiles who bear my name,

says the Lord, who does these things’—

¹⁸ things known from long ago.

¹⁹ “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. ²⁰ Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. ²¹ For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

Hi Danielzk, alls ya gotta do is look into acts 15 a little closer and let scripture interpret scripture.

ACTS 15 [17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among THE GENTILES are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Acts 15 as a whole was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized or not. Nothing to do with the 10 commandments.So lets look into what pollution of idols {V 20} is all about. Your book has a few added words you wont find in the bible. Anyways

LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and KEEP MY SABBATHS: I am the Lord your God. [4] TURN YE NOT UNTO IDOLS, NOR MAKE TO YOURSELVES MOLTEN GODS: I am the Lord your God.

LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall MAKE YOU NO IDOLS NOR GRAVEN IMAGE, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, BUT POLLUTED MY SABBATHS: FOR THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS.

I don’t know what the connection might be as to why graven images and idols are a sign that you don’t keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. I know the churches that do keep the sabbath don’t have any standing images or crosses. Well, least the ones I know. Also, the guys and gals that go to these churches dont wear molten gods about their necks nor hanging from their rear view mirrors.

[gdemoss]

Acts 15

¹⁷ that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,

even all the Gentiles who bear my name,

says the Lord, who does these things’—

¹⁸ things known from long ago.

¹⁹ “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. ²⁰ Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. ²¹ For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

Hi Danielzk, alls ya gotta do is look into acts 15 a little closer and let scripture interpret scripture.

ACTS 15 [17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among THE GENTILES are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Acts 15 as a whole was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized or not. Nothing to do with the 10 commandments.So lets look into what pollution of idols {V 20} is all about. Your book has a few added words you wont find in the bible. Anyways

LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and KEEP MY SABBATHS: I am the Lord your God. [4] TURN YE NOT UNTO IDOLS, NOR MAKE TO YOURSELVES MOLTEN GODS: I am the Lord your God.

LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall MAKE YOU NO IDOLS NOR GRAVEN IMAGE, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, BUT POLLUTED MY SABBATHS: FOR THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS.

I don’t know what the connection might be as to why graven images and idols are a sign that you don’t keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. I know the churches that do keep the sabbath don’t have any standing images or crosses. Well, least the ones I know. Also, the guys and gals that go to these churches dont wear molten gods about their necks nor hanging from their rear view mirrors.

An interesting and convincing argument. I have never seen the tie between idols and breaking the Sabbaths. An idol is simply a false image of God. There is none other than Jesus Christ whom have ever lived or been created that are the express image of the person of God. When one lives as Jesus did by doing and speaking only that which he had seen and heard the Father doing, they are worshiping the true image of God and not some idol. Thanks for the post.

I consider first:

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

Then:

1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, [let him speak] as the oracles of God;....

1Cr 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Hbr 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

But there is a war raging within:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

And we shall:

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Though a man esteem one day over another, I esteem every day alike. I simply do what I understand to be the works of God everyday without regard for the traditions of men but that of following Christ. I would gather together in worship seven days a week if it were feasible! Instead I simply come here and work, and go out into my community and do the works of God. Not forcing anything to happen by my own will but rather waiting upon the sovereign God to open and close doors for me that I might fulfill all his will. My will is simply to do the will of my Father in heaven through the leading of his Spirit who lives in me. I simply do not hold to the position of Saturday or Sunday. I do understand that if I were to desire to follow the letter of the law, it would be Saturday beginning Friday evening and for those who choose to do such out of a conviction within, Amen.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[WailingWall]

Hi gdemoss

Id like to show ya somethin i found to be great. It couldnt be a billion to one coincidence.

EZEK.20 [12] MOREOVER ALSO I gave them MY SABBATHS, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them

ACTS 2 [26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; MOREOVER ALSO MY FLESH SHALL REST in hope:

The 2 above scriptures are the only places the words "moreover also" can be found. If you will notice in ACTS 2 the WORD says “my flesh shall rest in hope”. Just as GODS 4th commandment tells us to do.

[gdemoss]

Joco, we will never see eye to eye on this until we can agree as to why those picking and eating corn on the Sabbath, though they were guilty of breaking the letter of the law, were not guilty of breaking the law of the Sabbath.

Gary

[gdemoss]

The fact that David was guiltless even though he broke the letter shows us that we can be guiltless today, even though we break the letter.

Now we are getting somewhere

Gary