goldust59 Posted April 1, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 989 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 6 Joined: 01/08/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/13/1959 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Eleanor, I think that over time, the depth of understanding that the apostles had was partially lost to us due to men throwing in their views. I think that God is opening our understanding to to this to bring us to maturity as a whole, properly functioning body to bring about His purposes in the last days. Everything we need to know is in the written Word, but hidden until the Holy Spirit opens our understanding of it. I think not being able to see what the apostles understood & put in writing is what opens the 'church' to being apostate. The ONLY protection from straying from the truth is the Holy Spirit. You don't think the depth of the apostles' understanding is contained in what they wrote? Jesus explained everything to them before he left (Lk 24:27, 44-47), and they likewise received the Holy Spirit in all fullness less than two weeks after he went back to heaven. Over and above what Jesus so thoroughly explaned to them from the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms, what added depth would the fullness of the Holy Spirit not have shown them, or that they would have failed to reveal to us in what they wrote? Do you really think this is plausible? Do you really think the Holy Spirit shows us more than he showed the Apostles of Jesus Christ, who also had the benefit of learning the meaning of the Scriptures from Christ himself? Are you sure about this? Yes, I think the depth of what they understood is in what they wrote, I just think our understanding of it has been tainted by men, so much, that it was pretty much lost to us for a long time. I believe the Holy Spirit is restoring our understanding, not necessarily showing us more than He showed them. Yes, I am sure. The apostles did not receive the Holy Spirit in fullness, nor have we yet. Jesus was the only one, so far, that was given the Holy Spirit without measure so that the heavens were 'open' to Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 1, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Since Jesus "must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore all things" (Ac 3:21) at the end of time (Ro 8:19-21) in the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness (2Pe 3:13), where there is no death (Rev 21:1-4), he won't be leaving heaven to meet the Church in the air (rapture-1Th 4:17)) until the end of time. The scripture doesn't say the end of time, but the end of the age. Exactly. Jesus "must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore all things" (Ac 3:21; Ro 8:19-21) in the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness (2Pe 3:13), where there is no death (Rev 21:1-4), making it eternity. The end of the age is followed by eternity. No room is allowed in the specific statements of Ac 3:21; Ro 8:19-21; 2Pe 3:13; Rev 21:1-4 for 1,000 years more time. Time is over. This is not uncertain private interpretation of symbolic unfulfilled prophecy, which is given in riddles (Nu 12:6-8), this is what is specifically stated in the certain Word of God written, and with which correct private interpretation of prophecy will not disagree. The private interpretation you are plying us that the end of the age---Grace, Church---is the end of time. It isn't. Time continues for seven years of the Tribulation era, and then for 1000 years on earth in the Millennial Reign era for humanity. People are born, live and die during both those eras. Time is done when the end of the Millennium comes and Judgment occurs. God comes and lives among us and our eternity starts in earnest. This is laid out for you in Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 1, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 1, 2012 On what basis do you know this with certainty? The Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 1, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 1, 2012 And I am still interested in your answer to the question in red, above. When you study the whole word of God, you receive the full picture from the beginning to end of a time where the Messiah will reign on Earth. Holy Spirit's job is to convince us of the truth of everything, and His convincing is not questionable, as it aligns with everything scripturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncran Posted April 1, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,246 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2012 On what basis do you know this with certainty? The Word of God. so let me get this right? the first time jesus came grace was dispensed and the second time grace will be given once again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 1, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 1, 2012 On what basis do you know this with certainty? The Word of God. so let me get this right? the first time jesus came grace was dispensed and the second time grace will be given once again? When Jesus returns, the age of Grace is complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncran Posted April 1, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,246 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2012 On what basis do you know this with certainty? The Word of God. so let me get this right? the first time jesus came grace was dispensed and the second time grace will be given once again? When Jesus returns, the age of Grace is complete. that rules out the millenial view and the temple that is a literal place of worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 1, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 1, 2012 On what basis do you know this with certainty? The Word of God. so let me get this right? the first time jesus came grace was dispensed and the second time grace will be given once again? When Jesus returns, the age of Grace is complete. that rules out the millenial view and the temple that is a literal place of worship. It certainly does NOT. Scripture in the OT and the NT all describe a Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ, which is an age two removed from the one we live in now---the age of Grace. There will be a Temple from which our High Priest will rule. We will worship Jesus Christ our King and Lord, ruler over all the earth as He rules and reigns from His beloved Jerusalem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 1, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 1, 2012 This is an interpretation and an imaginary scenario that feeds it, based on the mind, not based on prayerful study and acceptance of what the Word states. On what basis do you know this with certainty? The Word of God. The Word of God tells you that jason's interpretation is not based in prayerful study? What verse is that in? His made-up scenario was based on his own understanding and is not based on what scripture teaches us. Doing that is a way of forcing one's ideas, rather than allowing God's Word to stand on its own merit. We have to receive the word, not mold it to our understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncran Posted April 1, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,246 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2012 On what basis do you know this with certainty? The Word of God. so let me get this right? the first time jesus came grace was dispensed and the second time grace will be given once again? When Jesus returns, the age of Grace is complete. that rules out the millenial view and the temple that is a literal place of worship. It certainly does NOT. Scripture in the OT and the NT all describe a Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ, which is an age two removed from the one we live in now---the age of Grace. There will be a Temple from which our High Priest will rule. We will worship Jesus Christ our King and Lord, ruler over all the earth as He rules and reigns from His beloved Jerusalem. yes but theirs sinners alive in that age and they dont get grace? you said grace ends when he returns. so when those sinners sin how many times does the lord say thats it you die! once , twice?if that was so effective why would god do that now? why because no man would or could without grace and longsuffering be saved. even in the days of moses and the prophets grace and mercy existed. and you say that i dont understand my bible its not by my works that im saved but by the blood.if that level of mercy isnt given then how will the sinners be saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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