Knowing Scripture vs. Living Scripture

[oak]

There are things that need to be set straight. “I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.” Rom 10:2 Of course you will have many that will take this scriptural quote and put so many perspectives on it that it can possibly die in the heart of a man – hermeneutics included. But I believe God’s words are durable and certainly can stand the test of time. And if you believe, in the scripture I cited, you can benefit without being a Jew. Understanding the spiritual truth of these words will make you see their superiority to living in love and being in Christ verses understanding the law.

However we live in the informational age and the right information can make the difference between becoming a prince or pauper although both are illusions of a sort. What I’m saying is that the seeming paradoxes in the Bible will dissolve with a true love and obedience to Christ. Anyway, the main point of this writing is quite a few people will read, “We were buried therefore with him in baptism into death…We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin may be brought to nothing.” Rom 6:4-6. So a reader comprehends this by knowledge, and if that is all it is dead, wasted.

Whatever we dedicate ourselves, even earthly, we know we have to fall into obedience and a process. So many things I have read avoid this truth. Ok I only need to believe in Christ and I am saved because it’s a gift and it’s ok to tare conscious and good reason in the waste paper basket. There are those who will oppose me and say God does not lie, and that is our only agreement. Take the Chosen People, the Jews, did God ever lie to them; however their most scholarly and knowledgeable people, the Pharisees were shaken to the core. Let’s not fall asleep in faith. Understanding is good but if you don’t seek, knock, ask and pray your hearts out and stay the course of enduring, what good is your faith?

Lastly there is the new breed of “Young Turks,” who want to be glorified as finders of new truths, like the Bible is against homosexual prostitutes not homosexuals. Well according to that logic God is against the bartenders and not the drunks. Christianity and the Bible are being attacked, slowly subtly, and all you have to ask yourself can I give myself to Christ and live that till my last breadth. I am not disagreeing with the fact that Christ bestowed to us a wondrous gift that we know is not due to our own actions. But if God asked you to kill your only son or mother, would you obey as Abraham? I think it was a long journey but there was no arguing on the part of Abraham. This was counted as righteousness and what gave way to the Promise. Look, I’m far from what I need to be and there are times when I strive for God and my troubles multiply and at times it just comes to desire. We need to unite and bolster our spirits, but the individualism in these forums, I’m afraid will prevail, and the Messianic Jew, the Catholic priest, the Baptist pastor will all walk alone. And maybe for many true love will die. At least don't let it die without a good fight - that means you may suffer but don't let the suffering overtake your chance.

Oak

[Tyler John]

Lastly there is the new breed of “Young Turks,” who want to be glorified as finders of new truths, like the Bible is against homosexual prostitutes not homosexuals. Well according to that logic God is against the bartenders and not the drunks. Christianity and the Bible are being attacked...

Oak

I guess I must be one of the Young Turks, not that have any desire to be 'glorified as a finder of a new truth' and I'm certainly not young! In fact, personally, I hold to the old truths that pertained at the time of the NT church, at which time Paul and others did indeed make it clear that certain practices were wrong. What they never did, and neither did the OT, was to speak 'against homosexuals'. It is very different being against actions and being against the person who carries them out.

Jesus came 'to save, not to condemn'. In other words, his mission was to tell people the facts about man's rebellion against Yahweh, not to tell them to live their lives differently. When people come under the lordship of Jesus their lives change. They rarely change when we tell them what the bible has to say about their daily behaviour! They change in response to his love, not our condemnation.

Are Christianity and the bible under attack? So what if they are? Neither is really of immense importance. We are told to love the Lord our God, our neighbours and each other, not christianity and the bible. We are told to make disciples, not disciples of christianity and the bible, but disciples of Jesus.

Yahweh is not 'against the bartenders instead of the drunks', but he is very much against the peddlling of myth, tradition and idolatry as opposed to the following of Jesus alone. One of the strongest myths, which has become tradition and a form of idolatry for many believers, is that the bible is of a value equal to Jesus. Jesus is The Word of God, the name above all names, the only name by which we are saved, the only one who will judge men at the throne, and our only hope of reconciliation with our Father God. The bible is a collection of writings and has no intrinsic power of its own. I strongly recommend Fibs, Lies and Scripture by John Philip. You may find it challenges some of your core beliefs, but it is written with love and humour, and is in no way destructive.

I am 100 percent with you on the importance of living scripture - it should be living, not fossilised; lived practically, not known intellectually; and offer the promise of freedom and love, not control and condemnation.

[oak]

I guess I must be one of the Young Turks, not that have any desire to be 'glorified as a finder of a new truth' and I'm certainly not young! In fact, personally, I hold to the old truths that pertained at the time of the NT church, at which time Paul and others did indeed make it clear that certain practices were wrong. What they never did, and neither did the OT, was to speak 'against homosexuals'. It is very different being against actions and being against the person who carries them out.

Well “Young Turk,” glad you answered me because I was about to delete my post. I don’t think people were interested in really reading anything about the post. Further, I don’t know what you mean by “speak ‘against homosexuals.” Did I suggest that we must focus on the sinner and not the sin? Further, “Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters...nor men who practice homosexuality.... Cor. 6:9. How do you reason this passage? WE become what we practice but I’ll be easy and agree that homosexuality is and extension not the essence though like any sin it can cross over.

Jesus came 'to save, not to condemn'. In other words, his mission was to tell people the facts about man's rebellion against Yahweh, not to tell them to live their lives differently. When people come under the lordship of Jesus their lives change. They rarely change when we tell them what the bible has to say about their daily behaviour! They change in response to his love, not our condemnation.

Ok. This is fact filled five sentences. You bring up. Christ’s mission as well as His condemnation in relation to His teachings. Certainly, Christ came to save and not condemn. Yet man condemns himself quite well. Anyway Christ’s mission was to save man, not address rebellion (unless you mean sin which is still not the main point but an underlying thread). My main point was let us not choose to bend scripture to please ourselves or our fancies. As far as changing, I doubt we can do much of anything that is good without Christ’s power.

Are Christianity and the bible under attack? So what if they are? Neither is really of immense importance. We are told to love the Lord our God, our neighbours and each other, not christianity and the bible. We are told to make disciples, not disciples of christianity and the bible, but disciples of Jesus.

I agree but we are no longer in the dark ages, most people know how to read or at least listen to a reader, and Christianity and the Bible are railroad tracks of sorts, yes you can get to Christ without them but you can also be derailed and believe in false doctrine. Anyway here comes the checkmate, Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. (1 Tim. 4:16).

Yahweh is not 'against the bartenders instead of the drunks', but he is very much against the peddlling of myth, tradition and idolatry as opposed to the following of Jesus alone. One of the strongest myths, which has become tradition and a form of idolatry for many believers, is that the bible is of a value equal to Jesus. Jesus is The Word of God, the name above all names, the only name by which we are saved, the only one who will judge men at the throne, and our only hope of reconciliation with our Father God. The bible is a collection of writings and has no intrinsic power of its own. I strongly recommend Fibs, Lies and Scripture by John Philip. You may find it challenges some of your core beliefs, but it is written with love and humour, and is in no way destructive.

Christ is the light, the truth and the way. But in practical terms how do you balance Him within day to day concerns? If you want to flee to the dessert I wish you luck but will caution that that is not a guarantee. Don’t get me wrong at times I applaud your thinking, but we have to be realistic about taking action and fulfilling our present day responsibilities. Lastly how do you find the “Word of God?”

I am 100 percent with you on the importance of living scripture - it should be living, not fossilised; lived practically, not known intellectually; and offer the promise of freedom and love, not control and condemnation.

- Oak: Great!!!!

Oak

[AnotherSinner]

There are things that need to be set straight. “I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.” Rom 10:2 Of course you will have many that will take this scriptural quote and put so many perspectives on it that it can possibly die in the heart of a man – hermeneutics included. But I believe God’s words are durable and certainly can stand the test of time. And if you believe, in the scripture I cited, you can benefit without being a Jew. Understanding the spiritual truth of these words will make you see their superiority to living in love and being in Christ verses understanding the law.

However we live in the informational age and the right information can make the difference between becoming a prince or pauper although both are illusions of a sort. What I’m saying is that the seeming paradoxes in the Bible will dissolve with a true love and obedience to Christ. Anyway, the main point of this writing is quite a few people will read, “We were buried therefore with him in baptism into death…We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin may be brought to nothing.” Rom 6:4-6. So a reader comprehends this by knowledge, and if that is all it is dead, wasted.

Whatever we dedicate ourselves, even earthly, we know we have to fall into obedience and a process. So many things I have read avoid this truth. Ok I only need to believe in Christ and I am saved because it’s a gift and it’s ok to tare conscious and good reason in the waste paper basket. There are those who will oppose me and say God does not lie, and that is our only agreement. Take the Chosen People, the Jews, did God ever lie to them; however their most scholarly and knowledgeable people, the Pharisees were shaken to the core. Let’s not fall asleep in faith. Understanding is good but if you don’t seek, knock, ask and pray your hearts out and stay the course of enduring, what good is your faith?

Lastly there is the new breed of “Young Turks,” who want to be glorified as finders of new truths, like the Bible is against homosexual prostitutes not homosexuals. Well according to that logic God is against the bartenders and not the drunks. Christianity and the Bible are being attacked, slowly subtly, and all you have to ask yourself can I give myself to Christ and live that till my last breadth. I am not disagreeing with the fact that Christ bestowed to us a wondrous gift that we know is not due to our own actions. But if God asked you to kill your only son or mother, would you obey as Abraham? I think it was a long journey but there was no arguing on the part of Abraham. This was counted as righteousness and what gave way to the Promise. Look, I’m far from what I need to be and there are times when I strive for God and my troubles multiply and at times it just comes to desire. We need to unite and bolster our spirits, but the individualism in these forums, I’m afraid will prevail, and the Messianic Jew, the Catholic priest, the Baptist pastor will all walk alone. And maybe for many true love will die. At least don't let it die without a good fight - that means you may suffer but don't let the suffering overtake your chance.

Oak

Oak

Thank you for posting this. While it can be a difficult topic to discuss and equally rough to swallow, there is truth here. Reading as well as knowing the word are very different from living the word. For one can know it from top to bottom as well as front to back and not necessarily apply it. That was much of Jesus' issues with the religious leaders of His time, no? While they knew the laws in which God had given them, they were so fixated upon their literal meaning and upholding that they forgot what it truly meant to live in accordance to God's will.

This is something too, that we as believers...myself included here, at times fail to acknowledge.

The path of righteousness is very straight and narrow. It is not one that is easily tread or taken. It takes time, commitment, and most importantly faith in God. Even James himself stated, Faith without works is DEAD. This is very true.

How are we to live scripture? How are we to work our faith?

By humbling ourselves unto God. Reading, knowing, as well as seeking to act in accordance with the teachings God gave us.

May God Bless You

Dani

[oak]

Oak

Thank you for posting this. While it can be a difficult topic to discuss and equally rough to swallow, there is truth here. Reading as well as knowing the word are very different from living the word. For one can know it from top to bottom as well as front to back and not necessarily apply it. That was much of Jesus' issues with the religious leaders of His time, no? While they knew the laws in which God had given them, they were so fixated upon their literal meaning and upholding that they forgot what it truly meant to live in accordance to God's will.

This is something too, that we as believers...myself included here, at times fail to acknowledge.

The path of righteousness is very straight and narrow. It is not one that is easily tread or taken. It takes time, commitment, and most importantly faith in God. Even James himself stated, Faith without works is DEAD. This is very true.

How are we to live scripture? How are we to work our faith?

By humbling ourselves unto God. Reading, knowing, as well as seeking to act in accordance with the teachings God gave us.

May God Bless You

Dani

Dear Dani,

Thanks so much for responding because your response keeps me from despair. I somehow want to reward you, but Christ will see to that for you have in your way grasped the essence. This is unfortunately a crowd that is tired of work arguments and OSAS issues as well as other topics. That was not my intent. My question is more what is a Christian life?(RVSD)

I feel bad about speaking about homosexuality because it is a sin that has no effect on me. But if it was sloth, I’d reason that by doing nothing you are doing no wrong and perhaps seek those that are part of this lie. The truth is Christ; Christ is the truth. Seek the truth, this is a battle. When someone loses his pulse, do we coax him / her into life? No we electro-shock or do other aggressive measures but your spiritual life is of greater value. Oh say it was all done on the cross and as a coward walk away. At least in your darken heart and without conscience, say I have to show God that I can do His will. Wow, what a concept.

Oak

[gdemoss]

Oak, very good points indeed. I used to know scripture. Now I live scripture. I used to be carnal. Now I am spiritual. I used to deal with people for Christs sake. Now I actually love them. And the list goes on.

I think about this type of stuff everyday. As I daily walk with our Father, I ask him to teach me what to do and say to each person he brings unto me. I ask him to show himself to me so that I can be like him.

I currently have two disciples that I am working with travailing in birth until Christ be formed in them. One is close, possibly ready. The other is still seriously seeking truth. But if we who are converted diligently seek to save that which is lost by getting into their lives and showing them Christ from within, we can see those days of revival come to life and the church can go out in style with a large welcoming party when our Lord comes to rule.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[Guest HisG]

The Lord has let me live Scripture by having me totally depending on Him with my money.

He has not failed me yet in that department.

I know He is venturing out in other areas in my life to totally trust Him and that's where I think I am walking a rough road at the moment because I am still wobbly...but I refuse to let go of His Hand.

[AnotherSinner]

Oak

Thank you for posting this. While it can be a difficult topic to discuss and equally rough to swallow, there is truth here. Reading as well as knowing the word are very different from living the word. For one can know it from top to bottom as well as front to back and not necessarily apply it. That was much of Jesus' issues with the religious leaders of His time, no? While they knew the laws in which God had given them, they were so fixated upon their literal meaning and upholding that they forgot what it truly meant to live in accordance to God's will.

This is something too, that we as believers...myself included here, at times fail to acknowledge.

The path of righteousness is very straight and narrow. It is not one that is easily tread or taken. It takes time, commitment, and most importantly faith in God. Even James himself stated, Faith without works is DEAD. This is very true.

How are we to live scripture? How are we to work our faith?

By humbling ourselves unto God. Reading, knowing, as well as seeking to act in accordance with the teachings God gave us.

May God Bless You

Dani

Dear Dani,

Thanks so much for responding because your response keeps me from despair. I somehow want to reward you, but Christ will see to that for you have in your way grasped the essence. This is unfortunately a pusillanimous crowd (not all, I always absolve Botz, Enoob and Fresno) that wants you to think that it’s all in belief. Does anybody in their right mind expect Christ, who will have every knee bend to him ask, did you believe in Me???? As someone said, even demons believe in Christ. No read the Bible again = what kind of servants were we, what fruits did we produce? The current crowd sounds like Charlie Manson, who taught, “in love there is no wrong.” And his works he did.

I feel bad about speaking about homosexuality because it is a sin that has no effect on me. But if it was sloth, I’d reason that by doing nothing you are doing no wrong and perhaps seek those that are part of this lie. The truth is Christ; Christ is the truth. Seek the truth, this is a battle. When someone loses his pulse, do we coax him / her into life? No we electro-shock or do other aggressive measures but your spiritual life is of greater value. Oh say it was all done on the cross and as a coward walk away. At least in your darken heart and without conscience, say I have to show God that I can do His will. Wow, what a concept.

Oak

Oak

Knowing God as well as seeking God's will in His word, really reaps and is its own reward.

Sin is something I struggle with on a daily basis. Especially in terms of anger. Anger has been a real pressing matter for me and something that I am and going to continue to pray about as well as seek God's will on learning patience, understanding, even compassion towards those who tend to bring it out in me. For the end result to sin is no one's fault but my own.

This is likely why I relate so much to Peter of all of Jesus' apostles, he was the one though He loved Jesus and sought to follow Him....was one to let his faith waver when frightened....or quick to anger. These are both issues for me. When times I get rough enough...I panic. When someone does something I find hurtful, I am very much tempted to share a few less than kind words or take action that would not be right in God's eyes.

This is why I say...believer or non-believer alike NEEDS God's word daily. The need to read, know, and live God's word does not end the moment in which we ask Jesus into our hearts. On the contrary...it just begins!

May God Bless You

Dani

[oak]

Oak, very good points indeed. I used to know scripture. Now I live scripture. I used to be carnal. Now I am spiritual. I used to deal with people for Christs sake. Now I actually love them. And the list goes on.

I think about this type of stuff everyday. As I daily walk with our Father, I ask him to teach me what to do and say to each person he brings unto me. I ask him to show himself to me so that I can be like him.

I currently have two disciples that I am working with travailing in birth until Christ be formed in them. One is close, possibly ready. The other is still seriously seeking truth. But if we who are converted diligently seek to save that which is lost by getting into their lives and showing them Christ from within, we can see those days of revival come to life and the church can go out in style with a large welcoming party when our Lord comes to rule.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

I am truly glad you have disciples, but I do worry. We as humans can’t have disciples, period. All is in Christ. I could be wrong. The most important thing is to develop the “Beatitudes” and other Christ’s teaching and virtues. That’s the biggest mistake the now groovy line on Christ is; it’s without virtue. Honesty, compassion, meekness, humility is what we need to work on. We need no adherence other than pushing people to Christ. However If God directs you, say, “Dear God how can I serve you best, increase my faith” and I’ll bet you you’re adherents will become equal to you. The obvious point is don’t get a swelled head no matter what you do and realize you are in a spiritual war where being the leader is taking on the lowest post.

Oak

PS This is something that may help. Surround yourself with people that love Christ. This is something from my spiritual advisors: You are more alone with your frinds than woth just God." The same thing applies to money -it's just vanity.

[oak]

The Lord has let me live Scripture by having me totally depending on Him with my money.

He has not failed me yet in that department.

I know He is venturing out in other areas in my life to totally trust Him and that's where I think I am walking a rough road at the moment because I am still wobbly...but I refuse to let go of His Hand.

Oh, Oh…. The whole fight is centered on you giving all your trust including money on Christ. It’s a matter of dependence…who do you depend upon? You cannot mix money with Christ. "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." Matt 6:24 Walk the narrow.