Why does Hell have to be eternal?

[RejoicinginHisLove]

i dont believe that hell is just a metaphore for being "snuffed" out of existence, one needs to do alot of fancy footwork with scriptures to show other wise. but on the other hand i am persuaded that there will be alot more people in heaven than most christians believe- i havn't made up my mind yet but i think those who never heard of jesus and those who were truly sincere in their beliefs but didnt accept him out of their sincerity, i think god will give them another chance to choose to follow him or not after they passed from this life to the next

It's a difficult topic. I agree with your first statement, that there will be more people in heaven than we might expect, but I also believe that our eternal fate is determined by the choices we made in this life. Regarding those who never came to a full revelation of Jesus Christ, it can be said that at some point in their life, they chose good over evil or evil over good and many have a relationship with a God that they have yet to put a face on, and some reject such a relationship both never gaining a full understanding of the gospel. But for those who reject the love of God, there is no further chance after death, that must be made clear. If it were an issue of mental assent to the timeless truth of the gospel, then I understand why many people may never reach that point. But everyone who has lived has encountered the grace of God and responded to it or rejected it. This beneath the surface understanding of God's law is spoken of in Romans 1, the inner witness that woos people into a relationship with God.

But scripture informs us that "it is appointed for man once to die, then comes the judgement". This means after death we will be judged by the choices we made. I don't think the Bible can be any more clear on that matter.

yes, after death comes judgment from god but judgment doesn't necessarly mean damnation

Just remember God knows every heart; better than we know our own, and that itself explains where we will live eternally; also if I may add, if we are not to accept Christ as he came for us, to save us, and still be with God, then wouldn't that be calling the Most perfect and true and Mighty God...A Liar???

[Guest]

Just remember God knows every heart; better than we know our own, and that itself explains where we will live eternally; also if I may add, if we are not to accept Christ as he came for us, to save us, and still be with God, then wouldn't that be calling the Most perfect and true and Mighty God...A Liar???

Indeed It Is No Lie

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:12-17

For Believers Will Eternally Be With God: Father, Son And Holy Ghost

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:3-5

You See?

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.2 Corinthians 12:3

Yes?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. John 3:16-20

[Guest ninhao]

Thanks

If children are saved by default and might lose their salvation later, then it is logical that salvation is not permanent, in at least one case.

Unless you believe that three months old babies can go to hell. Is that what you believe? That would be undistinguishable from predestination, if we think about it.

Or is this too much carnal thinking?

Ciao

- viole

Yes

[gdemoss]

Thanks

If children are saved by default and might lose their salvation later, then it is logical that salvation is not permanent, in at least one case.

Unless you believe that three months old babies can go to hell. Is that what you believe? That would be undistinguishable from predestination, if we think about it.

Or is this too much carnal thinking?

Ciao

- viole

I am working on learning a bit about children and the salvation issue. I do believe that there is evidence that might give weight to the doctrine of the Age of Accountability. I don't believe I have ever said salvation was permanent except after the judgment is completed of course. It is an eternal judgment which is what this thread is about. Hell, the grave, in and of itself is not permanent. Everyone who goes there will be resurrected. Some unto the resurrection of life and other unto eternal torment in the lake of fire.

[Guest shiloh357]

If children are saved by default and might lose their salvation later, then it is logical that salvation is not permanent, in at least one case.

It's not that children are "saved," per se. It is that they are held in innocence until they are able to comprehend their sin and their need tor redemption.

Unless you believe that three months old babies can go to hell. Is that what you believe? That would be undistinguishable from predestination, if we think about it.

Or is this too much carnal thinking?

Actually that is precisely what Predestination teaches and it is a carnal teaching and is not found in Scripture. It is a logical absurdity that propenents of predestination must assent to in order to remain internally consistent with their belief system, sad to say.

[Hall7]

why a finite amount of sin should earn you infinite torment.

Your approach here is that sin is exclusively involved in doing, but the real problem is not one so much of doing but rather being. Yes, you should not do acts of sin, but the real problem is the make-up of a person's core inner being.

Humans are spirits having a temporary physical experience. However they are fallen spirits, and by virtue of the fallen spirit being separated from God, when the spirit leaves the body, if still separated from God by its fallen nature, goes to the realm of fallen spirits. Since spirit is eternal, the fallen spirit stays in this realm forever.

While people should do good and not commit acts of sin, this alone does not change a person's inner fallen nature. The solution involves removing the inner fallen nature and replacing it with a new inner nature that is connected with God. Then when the spirit leaves the body, the person goes to be with God, since she no longer is a fallen spirit.

Think of sin not so much as what a person does, but rather something that a person is. ( I know that sin is also an action, but stems from a person's nature)

Forgive please my ignorance on spiritual issues, but I have a technical question:

- What happens when the temporary physical experience lasts, say, three months?

I can see, logically, only three alternatives:

1) Children, who die when they are three months old, will always be separated from God

2) They will not be eternally separated from God, but then they did not have a fallen nature to start with.

3) Having a fallen nature is not a sufficient condition to be eternally separated from God

Ciao

- viole

The answer to that question can be found here:

Romans 2-

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

So this basically means that "gentiles" meaning ppl with a good heart, do the things in the law (which are the basics of the 10 Commandments), which basically is to love, forgive, not steal, not lie etc.. Without having knowledge of the law of God, (Such as babies, kids, or even tribes in the amazons who never were exposed to God's law), are judged by their own morals by their conscience bearing witness to themselves. Meaning that if they were to steal something and felt in their heart it was wrong, and then regret it and try to make up for it, it would show that they have redeemed their own sin by their own conscience bearing witness.

Babies are pure of heart so they definitely go to heaven when they pass .

So then you may ask yourself why become a Christian then? We become Christians to help the ones who aren't "gentiles in heart" to find the light and to spread God's light upon this world to make it a better world.

[Citizenship]

why a finite amount of sin should earn you infinite torment.

Your approach here is that sin is exclusively involved in doing, but the real problem is not one so much of doing but rather being. Yes, you should not do acts of sin, but the real problem is the make-up of a person's core inner being.

Humans are spirits having a temporary physical experience. However they are fallen spirits, and by virtue of the fallen spirit being separated from God, when the spirit leaves the body, if still separated from God by its fallen nature, goes to the realm of fallen spirits. Since spirit is eternal, the fallen spirit stays in this realm forever.

While people should do good and not commit acts of sin, this alone does not change a person's inner fallen nature. The solution involves removing the inner fallen nature and replacing it with a new inner nature that is connected with God. Then when the spirit leaves the body, the person goes to be with God, since she no longer is a fallen spirit.

Think of sin not so much as what a person does, but rather something that a person is. ( I know that sin is also an action, but stems from a person's nature)

Forgive please my ignorance on spiritual issues, but I have a technical question:

- What happens when the temporary physical experience lasts, say, three months?

I can see, logically, only three alternatives:

1) Children, who die when they are three months old, will always be separated from God

2) They will not be eternally separated from God, but then they did not have a fallen nature to start with.

3) Having a fallen nature is not a sufficient condition to be eternally separated from God

Ciao

- viole

The answer to that question can be found here:

Romans 2-

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

So this basically means that "gentiles" meaning ppl with a good heart, do the things in the law (which are the basics of the 10 Commandments), which basically is to love, forgive, not steal, not lie etc.. Without having knowledge of the law of God, (Such as babies, kids, or even tribes in the amazons who never were exposed to God's law), are judged by their own morals by their conscience bearing witness to themselves. Meaning that if they were to steal something and felt in their heart it was wrong, and then regret it and try to make up for it, it would show that they have redeemed their own sin by their own conscience bearing witness.

Babies are pure of heart so they definitely go to heaven when they pass .

So then you may ask yourself why become a Christian then? We become Christians to help the ones who aren't "gentiles in heart" to find the light and to spread God's light upon this world to make it a better world.

Excellent!

The preceding verses in Romans 2 spell it out quite clearly:

"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

These verses are not a gospel of works, but rather the simple truth that anyone who has faith in Christ and in fact lives by faith, will also persist in dong good and seeking glory, honor and immortality.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes, but from a purely practical point of view, it is then vastly better to die very young or being mentally disabled.

Not at all. I don't see where you get that notion. It's not better at all.

Well, at least we have some exceptions to the rule that prescribes acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Saviour in order to be saved. This would also make salvation dependent on medical conditions.

That is where you are wrong. There are no exceptions. First of all, that Christ holds some people in innocence does not mean that Jesus isn't the only way to be saved. No one is going to heaven on the merit of their disabilities or their young age. It is Jesus who is holding them in innocence, so it is through Him they are able to go to heaven.

Another interesting consequence is that children, at birth, are saved, but might lose their salvation if they get old enough to make a choice. Therefore, salvation might be temporaryl, at least for children. I thought salvation was definitive

Wrong again. Young children are not 'saved.' That is a misnomer on your part. Therefore, they don't lose their salvation when they get old enough to make a choice. Salvation is permanent, innocence is not. So you can lose those smart aleck emoticon "winks." They make a mockery of you, as you are not intellectually equipped to discuss theology.

[AlexanderJ]

Wrong again. Young children are not 'saved.' That is a misnomer on your part. Therefore, they don't lose their salvation when they get old enough to make a choice. Salvation is permanent, innocence is not.

[Tinky]

Hell is eternal because all sin is directed against an eternal God - thus deserving an eternal punishment. It's very simple actually.