Dad Ernie Posted October 27, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Greetings Pastor Jeff, Much of what you ask, I believe, is clearly spelled out in the NT. You have to realize that the NT is the REVELATION of the OT. Without the NT, the OT remains in darkness. So what I might suggest is that you suggest a verse or verses and find out what their ROOT is in the OT. This will give you a well rounded understanding. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted October 28, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 407 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 28, 2004 Hi Pastor Jeff, Here is a very informative sermon by Pastor Stephen Daily that may help you find your answers. In Jesus Day, There Were Two Extremely Different Views on This Issue of Divorce and Remarriage. One of These Views Was Extremely Liberal, and the Other View Was Extremely Conservative. Which One Do You Think Was the Most Popular? Yup, The Liberal View. And the Pharisees Knew That if Jesus Would Reject the Liberal View and Take the Hard Line, as John the Baptist Did, This Would Diminish His Popularity. The Liberal View Was Espoused by a Rabbi Named Hillel. And Hillel Said It Was Acceptable for a Man to Divorce His Wife for Any Reason at All. Hillel Said, for Example, That a Man Could Divorce His Wife if She Did Something as Trivial as Burning His Food, or if She Made the Mistake of Speaking Disrespectfully of His Parents. In Fact, Hillel Even Went as Far as to Command Divorce; One of His Statements Was, and I Quote: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAR61 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Well done, Bud.... (grasshopper)..... but given what you provided, it poses the question.... if this is the case, how do you explain the polygomy of Gideon, David, Solomon and ElKanah, but to name a few. You can't excuse the Law by exercising the cultures and traditions of man. So, how do we reconcile these issues? IS David, Gideon, Solomon, ElKanah in hell? Hi Pastor Jeff, Here is a very informative sermon by Pastor Stephen Daily that may help you find your answers. In Jesus Day, There Were Two Extremely Different Views on This Issue of Divorce and Remarriage. One of These Views Was Extremely Liberal, and the Other View Was Extremely Conservative. Which One Do You Think Was the Most Popular? Yup, The Liberal View. And the Pharisees Knew That if Jesus Would Reject the Liberal View and Take the Hard Line, as John the Baptist Did, This Would Diminish His Popularity. The Liberal View Was Espoused by a Rabbi Named Hillel. And Hillel Said It Was Acceptable for a Man to Divorce His Wife for Any Reason at All. Hillel Said, for Example, That a Man Could Divorce His Wife if She Did Something as Trivial as Burning His Food, or if She Made the Mistake of Speaking Disrespectfully of His Parents. In Fact, Hillel Even Went as Far as to Command Divorce; One of His Statements Was, and I Quote: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted October 29, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 407 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 29, 2004 how do you explain the polygomy of Gideon, David, Solomon and ElKanah, but to name a few. You can't excuse the Law by exercising the cultures and traditions of man. So, how do we reconcile these issues? IS David, Gideon, Solomon, ElKanah in hell? Hmmmm, well I think like with any other person on earth, David, Solomon, Gideon, etc., had the same choice whether to obey God's Word or not. And just like any other person, they screwed up. And just like any other person who has ever lived, they were sinners until the day they died. I mean, Moses was a murderer, David was also a murderer, and Paul (when he was Saul) at the very least assented to a murder (Stephen). Jacob and Abraham were liars, John was self-righteous, Jonah ran from God's will and refused to forgive, Noah was a drunk, Peter denied Christ, etc., Do you believe that any of those sins kept those people out of heaven? No. Because they, like all believers, were forgiven their sins. That's no excuse for willful sinning, and they, like all believers, will have to answer to the Lord for their actions. But the fact is, there was only one person who ever lived that was sinless, and that was Jesus Christ. If salvation was based on whether we live sinless lives, we will all end up in hell. warm regards -bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAR61 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 LOL... okay Bud... here's the problem with your thinking.... these men loved their many wives... are you inferring that they believed they were sinning in keeping their wives against the LAW? I assume they loved their wives and didnt see it as sinful.. Nowhere in Scripture did any of these men ever repent of their marriages to their many wives or concubines. Not so easy...is it... my good friend and brother...... So.. here is your challange Bud... try to figure it out searching Scriptures... and see if you can build on your thoughts... Because using your reasoning... God forgives us of sins we are aware of but conscienceously refuse to repent of...?? yes? no?? hmmmmmm.. makes for interesting discussion. Pastor Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAR61 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 just as a side note... those men may have not repented to God, but Im sure there were nights these guys went to bed thinking... "What the heck was I thinking marrying more than one"? I think there were nights these guys prayed more for a merciful and quick death than anything else..... LOL... okay Bud... here's the problem with your thinking.... these men loved their many wives... are you inferring that they believed they were sinning in keeping their wives against the LAW? I assume they loved their wives and didnt see it as sinful.. Nowhere in Scripture did any of these men ever repent of their marriages to their many wives or concubines. Not so easy...is it... my good friend and brother...... So.. here is your challange Bud... try to figure it out searching Scriptures... and see if you can build on your thoughts... Because using your reasoning... God forgives us of sins we are aware of but conscienceously refuse to repent of...?? yes? no?? hmmmmmm.. makes for interesting discussion. Pastor Jeff. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted October 29, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 407 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 29, 2004 Howdy Pastor Jeff, Because using your reasoning... God forgives us of sins we are aware of but conscienceously refuse to repent of...?? yes? no?? Well, pal-o-mine, it seems that all through history people will go to extreme measures to justify their sins. It could be that these people were doing just that. God does indeed judge us for sins we refuse to repent of. Like any good father, He is not slack in using the "rod of correction" to bring us to repentance. ... try to figure it out searching Scriptures... I am learning more and more every single day by following that very same advice from you, well over a year ago on that other message board. You challenged me to dig DEEP in the Scriptures, to get at every kernel of truth. To not trust what others say the Scriptures say. To study for myself, and not to be lazy when it came to God's word. I truly thank-you for that. I know that I will make mistakes. I know that I will not always be right. But like you said: A Christian has got to get off the milk and get to the meat. ...and I'm a hungry boy. warm regards -bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAR61 Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Bud..indeed you are a hungry boy and you have the girth to prove it..... LOL..... Peace my brother... Pastor Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAR61 Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Hey Bud... you didnt answer the question... those guys with many wives... where are they.... heaven or hell... forgiven or not.... law breakers or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginakay Posted November 2, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 280 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/08/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2004 I don't know why anyone would have to figure it out. Obviously God did not (that we know of) take the OT guys to task over having more than one wife. Perhaps he even thought it included enough punishment that was simply built in But in many cases the OT folk were examples to us by their lives. For instance it does not say that God chastised Abraham or Isaac for lying about their wives being their sisters, yet I would say they did not exactly 'get by with that either'. all the cases of plural wives that are given you can easily see problems in the family. That in its-self should give us the example we need. It may not be a sin that would separate you from God for eternity but can sure make life on earth miserable and cost dearly in terms of how your children view their father etc.. Budman, your posts were very much enjoyed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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