The Marriage Covenant

[Guest Gromore]

LOL... okay Bud... here's the problem with your thinking.... these men loved their many wives... are you inferring that they believed they were sinning in  keeping their wives against the LAW?

I assume they loved their wives and didnt see it as sinful.. Nowhere in Scripture did any of these men ever repent of their marriages to their many wives or concubines.

Not so easy...is it... my good friend and brother......

So.. here is your challange Bud... try to figure it out searching Scriptures... and see if you can build on your thoughts...

Because using your reasoning... God forgives us of sins we are aware of but conscienceously refuse to repent of...?? yes? no??

hmmmmmm.. makes for interesting discussion.

Pastor Jeff.

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Forgive me if I'm not following your thread too well, I'm new to the site. But it seems to me that if my God is a God of Love, I don't believe he would want abused women (or men for that fact) to continue in a marriage relationship. He could not possibly condone the abuse.

[Guest mousiegurl69]

I'll be around for a while. I'm not working this week but I was for the last two and a half. I've had trouble with my new E-mail address but it's working now. And here's the best part. I figured it out myself. Go figure eh: If I couldn't figure it out I'd still be trying to get authenticated onto these worthybaurds. I've posted in two or three different forums but found your posts here with Pastor Jeff. You did very well on that post in page one. I found it informative and wise. You sure have grown allot.

I still post on the other board now and again, but only when there is something worth posting to. So here's to some fun times here.

Mouse

[Hi, Mousie!

Glad to see you're still kickin'!

The Worthy Boards are fantastic. A lot less strife.

I hope to see you around here a whole bunch!

Love ya!

warm regards

-bud

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[Guest mousiegurl69]

Forgive me if I'm not following your thread too well, I'm new to the site. But it seems to me that if my God is a God of Love, I don't believe he would want abused women (or men for that fact) to continue in a marriage relationship. He could not possibly condone the abuse.

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[Guest JAR61]

Hey MOusie... How are ya my dear sister and friend? GLad you took me up on the invite.

[Guest mousiegurl69]

Hey MOusie... How are ya my dear sister and friend? GLad you took me up on the invite.

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Hey: It took a bit af time but I'm here. It's been an interesting read already. This is a great board.

I'm doing very well thanks, although life isn't without it's struggles, as you know. Thanks for letting me know of this.

Mouse

[Lionroot]

how do you explain the polygomy of Gideon, David, Solomon and ElKanah, but to name a few. 

You can't excuse the Law by exercising the cultures and traditions of man.

So, how do we reconcile these issues? IS David, Gideon, Solomon, ElKanah in hell?

Hmmmm, well I think like with any other person on earth, David, Solomon, Gideon, etc., had the same choice whether to obey God's Word or not. And just like any other person, they screwed up.

Well, the Bible is conspicuously silent in condemning polygamy, but in regard to David when did he screw up exactly? Was it when he took another wife? The Lord says he gave David his wives, and if they had been too few He would have given him more. We know that all God's gifts are good, and he who finds a wife finds what is good. So before Bathsheba, which the Bible condemned resoundly, where did he screw up?

Just some food for thought,

God Bless,

Robert

Edited March 8, 2005 by Lionroot

[nebula]

Ah! A "thread-resurrector"!

Well, the Bible is conspicuously silent in condemning polygamy, but in regard to David when did he screw up exactly? Was it when he took another wife? The Lord says he gave David his wives, and if they had been too few He would have given him more. We know that all God's gifts are good, and he who finds a wife finds what is good. So before Bathsheba, which the Bible condemned resoundly, where did he screw up?

Although polygamy is never charged against David, there is one passage in the Torah to consider:

Deuteronomy 17:14-20

14 "When you come to the land which the Lord your God is giving you, and possess it and dwell in it, and say, 'I will set a king over me like all the nations that are around me,' 15 you shall surely set a king over you whom the Lord your God chooses; one from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother. 16 But he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, for the Lord has said to you, 'You shall not return that way again.' 17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself. 18 "Also it shall be, when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write for himself a copy of this law in a book, from the one before the priests, the Levites. 19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the Lord his God and be careful to observe all the words of this law and these statutes, 20 that his heart may not be lifted above his brethren, that he may not turn aside from the commandment to the right hand or to the left, and that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he and his children in the midst of Israel.

What example did David set for Solomon?

(And we all know what Solomon's downfall was. )

The Bible does not tell us how many children were born to Adam and Eve. However, considering their long life spans (Adam lived for 930 years

[Lionroot]

Nebula,

Thanks for your warm welcome and response. I took time to consider your statements and questions, and I think I have found some interesting answers.

Although polygamy is never charged against David, there is one passage in the Torah to consider:

Actually none of Biblical polygamist are ever "charged against", perhaps thats because it is never declared a sin within the pages of the Bible.

Regarding Deuteronomy 17:17,If one reads the term "do not multiply" something to mean that a person can only have one. Then it follows that Israelite King can only have one horse. I'm sure you will agree that, it is not the intent of the LORD here to limit him to one horse as well.

The NIV translation reads thus: "Deuteronomy 17:17a He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray." So what is the limit on "many"? It is most certainly not one.

What example did David set for Solomon?

This is what the Bible says about Davids Example.

1 Kings 15:5 For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD's commands all the days of his life - except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.

Wow, I can only hope as a father to leave such a witness for my children. We see here that whatever the limits of "many", Davids heart was not lead astray.

The Lord encourages Solomon to follow Davids example:

1 Kings 9:4 As for you, if you walk before me in integrity of heart and uprightness, as David your father did, and do all I command and observe my commands and observes my decrees and laws,

(And we all know what Solomon's downfall was.   )

Now by even the most generous standards I think its fair to say that Solomon had "many wives". We learn in 1 Kings chapter 11 that some of them worshipped other god's, and they turned his heart from the LORD. Even now we are not to marry unbelievers. It is important to note what is said about David.

1 Kings 11:6 So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the LORD; he did not follow the LORD completely, as David his father had done.

Well, I hope that is worthy reply, and sheds light on the topic of David and his wives.

God Bless,

Robert

Ah!  A "thread-resurrector"!

Well, the Bible is conspicuously silent in condemning polygamy, but in regard to David when did he screw up exactly? Was it when he took another wife? The Lord says he gave David his wives, and if they had been too few He would have given him more. We know that all God's gifts are good, and he who finds a wife finds what is good. So before Bathsheba, which the Bible condemned resoundly, where did he screw up? 

Although polygamy is never charged against David, there is one passage in the Torah to consider:

Deuteronomy 17:14-20

14 "When you come to the land which the Lord your God is giving you, and possess it and dwell in it, and say, 'I will set a king over me like all the nations that are around me,' 15 you shall surely set a king over you whom the Lord your God chooses; one from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother. 16 But he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, for the Lord has said to you, 'You shall not return that way again.' 17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself. 18 "Also it shall be, when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write for himself a copy of this law in a book, from the one before the priests, the Levites. 19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the Lord his God and be careful to observe all the words of this law and these statutes, 20 that his heart may not be lifted above his brethren, that he may not turn aside from the commandment to the right hand or to the left, and that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he and his children in the midst of Israel.

What example did David set for Solomon?

(And we all know what Solomon's downfall was. )

The Bible does not tell us how many children were born to Adam and Eve. However, considering their long life spans (Adam lived for 930 years

[nebula]

Hey, Lionroot -

First of all, just to be square . . . I hope you are not making this point as a means of promoting polygomy.

The second thing is I think you misunderstood what I posted.

"Not amasing many wives" does not necessarily mean "no more than one."

However, it does imply a measure of self-control.

Now, in terms of obeying the Torah, yes, only the sin concerning Uriah and Bathsheba are recorded in rememberance. Interesting, though, that this was not the only violation he committed. Have you ever read the account of his having taken a census of the people, and as punichment he was given three choices - he chose to fall into the hands of the Lord rather than man, and so an angel was sent to kill the people with a plague, I believe? Remember that?

Now, was David a "perfect" man as far as everything else went?

Well, there is evidence he was not the best father in the world. How so? One son lusts after his half-sister, Tamar, and manipulates a scenario that leads to him raping her. What did David do about it? Seems like nothing. So, another son, the full-brother of Tamar, Absolom, murders the half-brother. And how did David handle that? Hmmm . . . not the best way he could, obviously, as the rest of the account shows.

So, my point? Be careful what you read and how you read it.

David seemed to have a lack of control on the wives' area - why else would he have been so vulnerable to taking to himself another man's wife?

[Botz]

I don't think polygamy was inherently wrong in those days...it is just that much of our society has changed and developed and it is no longer acceptable practice...but go somewhere like the Solomon Islands and you will find Christians with three or so wives....the only stipulation being they cannot be in leadership.

1Tim 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

1Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;