jc49 Posted October 26, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 498 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1949 Share Posted October 26, 2004 (edited) The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Our fellowship as Christians is not based upon the timing of the rapture, but upon the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Some have accused those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture as "escapists," trying to avoid all trouble or persecution. On the contrary, the Church always has been and always will be persecuted as long as we are in the world, but this is not the same as the wrath of God poured out during the Tribulation. We believe the rapture occurs before the Tribulation because scriptures overwhelmingly support a pre-tribulation rapture, as opposed to the amillennial, post-millennial, and post-tribulation theories. We can't be dogmatic over something that hasn't occurred yet. Whenever He comes is His will, which should be sufficient for whatever position you hold. In the meantime, God has given us scriptures to examine. The following is a list of scriptural proofs that indicate the rapture will be Pre-Tribulation. 16 Proofs for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture Proof #1: Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection. The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, does not mention a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming. Proof #2: Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn't mention a resurrection. This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the second coming. Again, no mention of a resurrection. Proof #3: Two different pictures are painted. In the Old Testament, two different pictures are painted of the Messiah Edited October 26, 2004 by jc49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted October 26, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted October 26, 2004 How about ONE proof there's NO rapture? John 17: (Jesus Speaking) "Father, do NOT take them out of the world...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted October 26, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted October 26, 2004 All those arguments just go to prove how little you KNOW of the scriptures. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted October 26, 2004 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted October 26, 2004 All those arguments just go to prove how little you KNOW of the scriptures. Blessings, Dad Ernie <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Heb 9:28 ...and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Keep looking up, Dad Ernie. You sure have a pleasant way to answer a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted October 26, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 26, 2004 All those arguments just go to prove how little you KNOW of the scriptures. Blessings, Dad Ernie <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You know what DE, I think you should remove yourself from any discussion on this issue. You give us Post-tribbers a terrible name in how you treat pre-tribbers. If you know so much, then why don't you try and take the responces and respond to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted October 26, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Greetings Super Jew, How is speaking the truth giving post-tribbers a bad name? I have addressed probably every issue mentioned in the last several months. I learned a long time ago that in order to understand eschatology, one must first become acquainted with Christ and His Word. This is not only born out by me, but other expositors as well. This pre-trib nonsense is a fable, a lie, taught to unsuspecting Christians. I was once told that to preach or teach anything other than a pre-trib rapture hurts the evangelic message of the believer. They want to hear the "good" things. They do not want to face the fact that they are called to "suffer for the Name of Christ". Persecution is quite prevelant in the world, and the time will soon be upon us when we too shall suffer as the rest of the world does now. When I see these l-o-n-g diatribes promoting this false doctrine, it just galls me. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted October 26, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 26, 2004 Why not just point them (or link them) to your rebuttal instead of insulting them though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.C. Posted October 26, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 172 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/13/1982 Share Posted October 26, 2004 How about ONE proof there's NO rapture? John 17:Â (Jesus Speaking)Â "Father, do NOT take them out of the world...." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you talking about the Gospel of John 17:15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc49 Posted October 27, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 498 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1949 Author Share Posted October 27, 2004 Greetings Super Jew, How is speaking the truth giving post-tribbers a bad name? I have addressed probably every issue mentioned in the last several months. I learned a long time ago that in order to understand eschatology, one must first become acquainted with Christ and His Word. This is not only born out by me, but other expositors as well. This pre-trib nonsense is a fable, a lie, taught to unsuspecting Christians. I was once told that to preach or teach anything other than a pre-trib rapture hurts the evangelic message of the believer. They want to hear the "good" things. They do not want to face the fact that they are called to "suffer for the Name of Christ". Persecution is quite prevelant in the world, and the time will soon be upon us when we too shall suffer as the rest of the world does now. When I see these l-o-n-g diatribes promoting this false doctrine, it just galls me. Blessings, Dad Ernie <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here we go again..it seems to me that you put yourself on a very high and lofty pedistal...watch out cause, God forbids, if you fall you are going to hurt yourself really good:) I really don't want to go personal,one or one,but I think that you are not the one and only depository of the TRUTH...in fact none is..ONLY JESUS IS TRUTH,HERE and NOW and FOR EVER.... You say that we pretrib are afraid of persecution...that is what you say...but what do you know?Do you know HOW I HAVE BEEN PERSECUTED for THE FAITH? Do you know? Who are you ,GOD? I know that in 32 years of faith I have been persecuted from the very day I became a born again believer ( an that's is the 4th of FEB 1972) My family turned against me,my friends,I have been spat upon and had the Bible thrown to my face and I have been called names you wouldn't believe.When Jesus SAVED ME ETERNALLY I was involved in all sort of witchcraft,sex,drugs and rock'n roll...I have been stoned off my face for years before that wonderful day when Jesus saved me ETERNALLY,Praise HIS NAME!!! I was born and raised catholic in Rome,my family were the tipical wishy washy catholic going to church at Christmas and that's all.Actually my father was a Free Mason and He DIDN'T BELIEVE in JESUS,actually hated the RCC cause when he was young his family sent him to boarding school to the SCOLOPI PRIESTS,and the horror he saw in those years with those FALSE PROPHETS that worship statues and popes,drove him miles away from anything ecclesiastical.My father went to see a big "shot" psychiatrist to tell him that I had gone mad,getting fanatical about Jesus etc..and the professor told him:"Don't worry,it is a mystical experience",2 or 3 months and your son will be back to US,and well' make a free mason of him"....The doctor is dead,my father is with Jesus because in 1 year THE LORD JESUS saved my mother(who is 76 and strong in GOD that you have no idea!)than my sister who is now 50 and walking with Jesus stronger than ever,and finally my father that walked with God and became a free evangelist for 10 years,and then he went with JESUS!!!The LORD IS POWERFUL!!!! When He saved me and then every member of my family,we were all born again instantaneously,got FILLED with THE HOLY SPIRIT,SPOKE IN TONGUES ,got waterbaptism and GOT FIRED UP and all our friends and relatives turned their back to us ,like if we were lepers,but GUESS WHAT?THE LORD SAVED several of them,and some are with JESUS NOW!!! JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAME YESTERDAY TODAY AND FOR EVER!!!!HIS POWER IS INFINITE!!! HE DOESN"T NEED OTHER HEROES!! HE IS THE HERO!!!! He wants sons and daughters that simply believe and continue believe HIS WORD and SPIRIT!!!!Did I have failed GOD? YES!!! I am not proud of it,in fact I fail GOD everyday,I still get PERSECUTED like every other christian pre/mid/post tri,by THE FLESH,THE WORLD and THE DEVIL....I am NOT BETTER THAN YOU or any other believer,HE knows I'm not lieing or put up a facade,I am not HOLIER than THOU,brother,but I rely on HIM,on HIS LOVE,MERCY,GRACE,LONGSUFFERING and HIS WORD and SPIRIT,I must rely on HIM,cause without HIM I'll go flat on my face for ever.When I was in the world,I also was a FIERCE COMMUNIST,ATHEIST,and I wanted BLOW UP the world,just like those terrorists now!!! I know that in my flesh dwells NO GOOD! I know that I would deny Jesus ,I am not BETTER than PETER,I know I cannot TRUST men,so not even myself (Ps118:8) 8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. 9 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes. I DIDN'T GO BIBLE shool,but THE LORD gave me a hunger for HIS WORD,and imparted me as a gift a good working knowledge of HIS WORD,that I study continually,that I love so much,cause I love JESUS 'cause HE LOVED ME FIRST ,and saved me ETERNALLY BY HIS GRACE,and gave me even the faith to believe in HIM...I had NONE then... But,enough of my testimony,I know in Whom I have believed and I know He is able to keep me .....to the end...... Yes,I want give glory to GOD and pray that He will bless you brother and all the believers,that He will give strenght to HIS PEOPLE,and that He WILL COME BACK SOON,not only to kick the enemy where he belongs,bu BECAUSE I WANT TO SEE JESUS SO MUCHHHH,I WANT TO GRAB HIS FEET FOR EVER,I WANT BEHOLD THE EYES of OUR GREAT WONDERFUL PRECIOUS SAVIOUR and LORD and GLORIFY THE FATHER for HIS IMMENSE LOVE and MERCY TO a VERMIN like ME!!! AMEN.GOD BLESS US ALL,M A R A N A T H A !!!(forgive my broken englih,I am italian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Dannyboy Posted November 4, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 156 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,454 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1969 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Matthew 16:6 Jesus said to them, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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