Guest ninhao Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Shiloh, It has to do with that which I have been seeing in scripture, where there seems to be a duality in fulfillment of events the first one being natural and the second spiritual. It is my guess that you will reject the idea due to that which I understand about your system of theological understanding. I hold to a position that Manasseh and Ephraim prophetically represent spiritual events associated with Gods people after the first advent of Christ. Manasseh, the two half tribes on either side of the Jordan, represents the split between the still blind and the believing Jew, while Ephraim, the multitude of nations (fullness of the gentiles) as was blessed by Jacob, represents the gentile court of Gods temple here on Earth that Jesus is building. It is through this angle of understanding that I came to conclude that Isaiah 7 had a spiritual fulfillment in the Holocaust and rebirth of the Jewish nation of Israel and that Isaiah 9 can be seen in the World Trade center ordeal as Johnathan Cahn presents it (Isaiah 7 is my own, I haven't found anyone who has openly declared it anywhere). In the end, if what I see in the scriptures is correct, then by Israels 65th birthday God will leave off the time of the gentiles and move back to revealing Messiah to Israel and reunite both halves of Manasseh. Revelation by God or doctrine of devils? Only time will tell. Ether way it is what I keep being shown when I open up my bible along with a host of other things that explain why this isn't exactly front page news in Christiandom. I'd be glad to share them all with you but my expectation is to be told that I don't know what I am talking about and that I need to learn how to rightly divide the word etc. Have a great day. Gary Hello Gary, Rom 11:25-27 KJV For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Are you thinking Jesus will return on May 14, 2013 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 The real test will be managing the aftermath of the coming spiritual Passover event. Of course, one will rise to meet the challenge and have 'all' the right answers to deal with the worldwide death epidemic and be able to draw the world together under one banner. They already have their monument in place in Georgia. They only need wait on God to do his part and have his patience exhausted but God is long suffering to us-ward. not willing that any should perish but that all should repent. Gary The coming spiritual passover event? I am familiar with the Georgia guidestones. What are you referring to? Shiloh, It has to do with that which I have been seeing in scripture, where there seems to be a duality in fulfillment of events the first one being natural and the second spiritual. It is my guess that you will reject the idea due to that which I understand about your system of theological understanding. I hold to a position that Manasseh and Ephraim prophetically represent spiritual events associated with Gods people after the first advent of Christ. Manasseh, the two half tribes on either side of the Jordan, represents the split between the still blind and the believing Jew, while Ephraim, the multitude of nations (fullness of the gentiles) as was blessed by Jacob, represents the gentile court of Gods temple here on Earth that Jesus is building. It is through this angle of understanding that I came to conclude that Isaiah 7 had a spiritual fulfillment in the Holocaust and rebirth of the Jewish nation of Israel and that Isaiah 9 can be seen in the World Trade center ordeal as Johnathan Cahn presents it (Isaiah 7 is my own, I haven't found anyone who has openly declared it anywhere). In the end, if what I see in the scriptures is correct, then by Israels 65th birthday God will leave off the time of the gentiles and move back to revealing Messiah to Israel and reunite both halves of Manasseh. Revelation by God or doctrine of devils? Only time will tell. Ether way it is what I keep being shown when I open up my bible along with a host of other things that explain why this isn't exactly front page news in Christiandom. I'd be glad to share them all with you but my expectation is to be told that I don't know what I am talking about and that I need to learn how to rightly divide the word etc. Have a great day. Gary I will only say that what you have presented is a very subjective and conjectured view of the Bible and is not based on any sound exegesis that I can see. All I see is you arbitrarily assigning the values you want to groups you want in order to make your conclusions add up. I don't see how you arrived any of that or what principles of exegesis you are employing to get to the point where you think Mannassah and Ephraim represent what you say they represent. And don't see what any of that has to do with Passover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted December 2, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Shiloh, It has to do with that which I have been seeing in scripture, where there seems to be a duality in fulfillment of events the first one being natural and the second spiritual. It is my guess that you will reject the idea due to that which I understand about your system of theological understanding. I hold to a position that Manasseh and Ephraim prophetically represent spiritual events associated with Gods people after the first advent of Christ. Manasseh, the two half tribes on either side of the Jordan, represents the split between the still blind and the believing Jew, while Ephraim, the multitude of nations (fullness of the gentiles) as was blessed by Jacob, represents the gentile court of Gods temple here on Earth that Jesus is building. It is through this angle of understanding that I came to conclude that Isaiah 7 had a spiritual fulfillment in the Holocaust and rebirth of the Jewish nation of Israel and that Isaiah 9 can be seen in the World Trade center ordeal as Johnathan Cahn presents it (Isaiah 7 is my own, I haven't found anyone who has openly declared it anywhere). In the end, if what I see in the scriptures is correct, then by Israels 65th birthday God will leave off the time of the gentiles and move back to revealing Messiah to Israel and reunite both halves of Manasseh. Revelation by God or doctrine of devils? Only time will tell. Ether way it is what I keep being shown when I open up my bible along with a host of other things that explain why this isn't exactly front page news in Christiandom. I'd be glad to share them all with you but my expectation is to be told that I don't know what I am talking about and that I need to learn how to rightly divide the word etc. Have a great day. Gary Hello Gary, Rom 11:25-27 KJV For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Are you thinking Jesus will return on May 14, 2013 ? No. Actually I believe that the scripture is saying that a bill of divorcement will be given to that which is spiritually Ephraim outside of a remnant. I believe it will happen before May 14th, 2013. I believe the return of Jesus Christ will most likely happen at some point that is probably 3 1/2 years out yet. The real test will be managing the aftermath of the coming spiritual Passover event. Of course, one will rise to meet the challenge and have 'all' the right answers to deal with the worldwide death epidemic and be able to draw the world together under one banner. They already have their monument in place in Georgia. They only need wait on God to do his part and have his patience exhausted but God is long suffering to us-ward. not willing that any should perish but that all should repent. Gary The coming spiritual passover event? I am familiar with the Georgia guidestones. What are you referring to? Shiloh, It has to do with that which I have been seeing in scripture, where there seems to be a duality in fulfillment of events the first one being natural and the second spiritual. It is my guess that you will reject the idea due to that which I understand about your system of theological understanding. I hold to a position that Manasseh and Ephraim prophetically represent spiritual events associated with Gods people after the first advent of Christ. Manasseh, the two half tribes on either side of the Jordan, represents the split between the still blind and the believing Jew, while Ephraim, the multitude of nations (fullness of the gentiles) as was blessed by Jacob, represents the gentile court of Gods temple here on Earth that Jesus is building. It is through this angle of understanding that I came to conclude that Isaiah 7 had a spiritual fulfillment in the Holocaust and rebirth of the Jewish nation of Israel and that Isaiah 9 can be seen in the World Trade center ordeal as Johnathan Cahn presents it (Isaiah 7 is my own, I haven't found anyone who has openly declared it anywhere). In the end, if what I see in the scriptures is correct, then by Israels 65th birthday God will leave off the time of the gentiles and move back to revealing Messiah to Israel and reunite both halves of Manasseh. Revelation by God or doctrine of devils? Only time will tell. Ether way it is what I keep being shown when I open up my bible along with a host of other things that explain why this isn't exactly front page news in Christiandom. I'd be glad to share them all with you but my expectation is to be told that I don't know what I am talking about and that I need to learn how to rightly divide the word etc. Have a great day. Gary I will only say that what you have presented is a very subjective and conjectured view of the Bible and is not based on any sound exegesis that I can see. All I see is you arbitrarily assigning the values you want to groups you want in order to make your conclusions add up. I don't see how you arrived any of that or what principles of exegesis you are employing to get to the point where you think Mannassah and Ephraim represent what you say they represent. And don't see what any of that has to do with Passover. Thanks for the well thought out and presented opinion of what you perceive of that which I am doing. Having had the years of critical study of scripture that you have had that are guided by specific understanding of what is known as proper exegesis of scripture, it does not surprise me in the least that your mind would be trained to consider what I am doing to be arbitrarily assigning the values that i want to groups in order to make my conclusions add up. Your perception from your vantage point makes perfect sense. What would you say of an author of the NT that assigned values to things such as the two wives of Abraham as representing the two covenants? I would assume you would speak about the guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead them to the proper conclusion through revelation of the truth of what God had presented. Or is there some proper method of exegesis that was used by the author to properly under stand the critical explanation of the text from Genesis? I agree with you that these things can be a product of the imagination of a person. Especially someone who wants to be some great prophet or teacher of the people. What I am bringing to you and others is what is being offered to me by that which is in me. I am very critical in examining that which is offered to me in thought because I have been offered that Jehovah Witness, Mormon, Islam and other teachings were the 'correct' teaching and all of this was done internally and came through my heart. I have one who is also there that has put to rest each of them through offering of scripture for my consideration when any have come along trying to sell me their understanding of God. This is all very scary and shaky ground for me as I don't have any specific church body that I know of that espouses the doctrines that I do as pertaining to eschatology but merely some that are in the same ballpark. I know that in my flesh is no good thing and when I would to do good evil is present with me. I know that Sin is constantly trying to color my biblical view in various shades of grey. I am fully open to the idea that I can be wrong but also understand that only time will tell as the date comes and goes. The principle of exegesis that I am using when examining the text seeking to understand its prophetic value is that which is natural comes first followed by the which is spiritual. If you accept that as true then you are open to being able to consider all of the possibilities of what God is doing with creation as he works to perfect that which he created. I have been considering a new principle by which to conclude various things within scripture that are prophetic in nature and that being the need for two or three witnesses to establish the prophecy. This can be seen in amazing detail in the prophecies concerning the coming of Christ as the OT was all about him. As concerning how this revelation has been coming to me from an internal source that leads me as he chooses, there is ample witness in scripture of the internal leading of the Holy Spirit as well as the internal misleading of devils. Concerning my conclusions about the identity of Ephraim's prophetic spiritual sense, I was led to discover that the phrase used in the blessing of Josephs child was the exact same phrase that Paul used in the Romans text concerning that which must come to pass before the blindness of Israel will be taken away. He led me to look at the phrase in the Septuagint and compare it to the Greek text in the NT. My study has gone from me simply reading and reasoning things out through my intellect to relying upon internal guidance as to what I should read and what I am reading means. I was taken to Genesis 48, then sent to Isaiah 7, then to 2 Kings 17, then Jeremiah 3, then John 4 and Psalm 78 to be shown the flow of the term Ephraim as it was given unto different peoples. All things pointing to the eventual end of the gentile church that culminates in the gathering together of ourselves unto him in the rapture. I have to admit that I am personally no match for the principalities and powers that are in the realm of the spirit that could be very well misguiding me to see things that are not real or true for the purpose of receiving my worship of them. But I am calling upon the name of the Lord for truth that I might walk in all his ways as he leads and teaches me truth. The one who has been teaching me has taken me about the scriptures and taught me the basic principle that obedience equals revelation and disobedience equals confusion. I was told in no uncertain terms that the key to knowledge wasn't years of study but obedience to revealed light. I have experienced being led of devils to the place of confusion at a critical learning point in my growth 2 years ago. It was a time that I was lifted up in pride, arrogance and judgmentalism. God saw fit to send me out to eat grass like an ox and I had a very horrific 4 month journey. I was chastened but not killed. I was led to believe a great many things about scripture that were not true. At one point I was turned into a zombie like person and set out to 'go to God' not regarding my body whether it came into contact with obstacles or not. I had completely lost my ability to function in any area of my life. But this is completely different. I am simply learning about things and have kept my sanity through the whole process. About the Passover. Joseph (Jesus) had two children while he was in Egypt (the world), Manasseh and Ephraim (Jew and Gentile). His children were eventually delivered from Egypt unto the promise land that began with the Exodus upon the Passover. We, the children of God, are preparing to be delivered from this evil age unto the kingdom age and this will be kicked off by what I believe will be a spiritual Passover event. Those of us (Ephraim, Gods firstborn) who have eaten the word of God and drank into one Spirit having placed the blood of the lamb over the door post will be passed over while that which offends will be taken out. Where the body is there will the eagles be gathered together. The end of the process will be the return of Christ and our gathering together unto him. I would love to talk these things out and seek to bring out the fullness of the prophetic texts but that has never been allowed. It usually ends in a locked thread and a bunch of mud slinging of the persons participating. There is a lot of bias against such things. I imagine Noah had a tough time seeking to sell that God was about to destroy the world by a massive flood too. I preach the same message except I am preaching that this time it will be a flood of fallen angelic host that destroys this ungodly world as they are cast out of heaven and down to the earth their place no more to be in heaven. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 No. Actually I believe that the scripture is saying that a bill of divorcement will be given to that which is spiritually Ephraim outside of a remnant. I believe it will happen before May 14th, 2013. I believe the return of Jesus Christ will most likely happen at some point that is probably 3 1/2 years out yet. I read that you believe the gentiles are spiritual Ephraim. I assume you consider much of today's Church to be the ones being divorced. What does this bill of divorce mean and what will happen before May 14 2013 exactly to those divorced ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted December 2, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted December 2, 2012 About the Passover. Joseph (Jesus) had two children while he was in Egypt (the world), Manasseh and Ephraim (Jew and Gentile). I know this is a thread hijack, but I am curious over what you believe about the other sons of Jacob? After all, the label "Jew" is taken from "Judah", which was the dominant tribe of the Kingdom of Judah, thus the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 This storm was supposed to show us the value of big government. It also showed everyone how much better of a President Obama is than George W ush when it comes to handling a crisis. I don't know why they are complaining? Obama fixed everything. He came in, hugged Governor Christy, said he would eliminate the red tape, and magically, everything is all better. Many even think the way he handled the crisis helped him win re-election. Who needs private charity, or help from workers (scabs as the union people call them) from Alabama, when the people have Obama and FEMA? Who needs to trust in God, when the government is there to make everything all better? As they say, elections have consequences. This is what the people in New York, New Jersey voted for. Now they have to live with consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted December 2, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I want to end the thread derailment and move back to the OP. I am offering the following below but after that any other conversation concerning the topic need go to its own thread except it be that Shiloh give his blessing to continue. It is his thread and he wanted to discuss the peoples dissatisfaction with FEMA. No. Actually I believe that the scripture is saying that a bill of divorcement will be given to that which is spiritually Ephraim outside of a remnant. I believe it will happen before May 14th, 2013. I believe the return of Jesus Christ will most likely happen at some point that is probably 3 1/2 years out yet. I read that you believe the gentiles are spiritual Ephraim. I assume you consider much of today's Church to be the ones being divorced. What does this bill of divorce mean and what will happen before May 14 2013 exactly to those divorced ? This is a very good question indeed. One of which I do not have a simple answer too. I look at what happened to those of the northern kingdom when God issued them their bill of divorcement. He used the king of Assyria to remove them from his sight and disperse them among the nations. How exactly that translates on a spiritual fulfillment is yet to be disclosed. Will God use Islam to judge his people? Governments of powerful nations? We here in America are in debt to China and could easily become their indentured servants if we cannot pay our debt unto them as God has said that the debtor is servant unto the lender. Once Gods hand of protection is removed from those who are his then we can only seek to learn by the scriptures what has been given by God to those to understand of the eventual outcome for those who have been forsaken. We know that when the 'forsaking' happens that the man of Sin will be revealed. Most believe that the 'forsaking' or 'falling away' is people forsaking God but I contend otherwise, it is God divorcing the disobedient ones just as he did with Israel's northern kingdom. About the Passover. Joseph (Jesus) had two children while he was in Egypt (the world), Manasseh and Ephraim (Jew and Gentile). I know this is a thread hijack, but I am curious over what you believe about the other sons of Jacob? After all, the label "Jew" is taken from "Judah", which was the dominant tribe of the Kingdom of Judah, thus the name. This is a very in depth study that I have yet to complete and any assessment that I would make would fail to give justice to what is truly revealed in the scripture. I believe that there is a significance to the fact that Jacob had two wives and two concubines by which all of his children were born unto him. The fact that Benjamin and Joseph were brothers both being sons of Rachel who was easy on the eyes rather than Leah who was tender eyed is important. I believe every detail given is given for a significant reason. I believe that there is a tremendous significance in the blessings spoken over Jacobs sons as well as Josephs. Notice that Jacob said that Josephs sons would be as Reuben and Simeon his first two sons, both of which lost their birthright of the seed of Messiah due to various causes. The Messianic Jew and Gentile church that they represent would prophetically follow the same path. I have not been led as of yet to go to complete the study regarding the prophetic significance of the rest of the children of Jacob but do recognize that their are significant listings of the tribes in various places that differ as to whom makes the list at any given time. If the Lord wills and the Spirit guides, I shall delve into understanding what the scriptures teach concerning them. For now a heavy emphasis has been placed upon putting on Christ and walking in him. The spiritual fulfillment of the world wide flood includes the spiritual ark which is Christ and our hope is Christ in us unto glory. I'll let you know if anything comes about in the course of study. Moving back to the topic at hand, civil unrest toward governments inability to properly relieve its people when God acts in such a way seems to be part of the prescribed course that economic globalists need to charter so that the people will turn to private corporate enterprise that is actually taking over power of nations through the manipulation of currencies and product flow. These corporate globalists do not want any one government to be the answer to the peoples problems but would much rather that civil unrest brought about reliance upon globalism instead. At least that is how I have been understanding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joi Posted December 2, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 506 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 1,922 Content Per Day: 0.40 Reputation: 173 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/12/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2012 From our experience with Fema, when we lived on the MS Gulf Coast, I can tell you that private enterprise is far better than FEMA. Private enterprise has no bureaucracy, no red tape and no long waiting lines. The Coastal areas are still trying to come back from Katrina. It does not happen quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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