Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 There is no evidence that the person whom Paul delivered over to Satan became demon-possessed. Very interesting you bring up Paul. Didn't he have a thorn IN THE FLESH, a messenger(angel) of Satan? Go figure. You can only freely give that which you have been freely given. LT Shalom LT, Let's rightly divide the Word of Truth. NO place does it say that Paul was possessed or needed deliverance. Satan can affect Christians, but he cannot indwell them. Paul did not seek deliverance or exorcism either, did he? NO! He sought Jesus. And Jesus said my grace is sufficient. If there was a demon that needed to be exorcised, it would have been, but as the Word shows, there was demon indwelling a Christian. You made my argument for me. but as the Word shows, there was NO demon indwelling a Christian. You made my argument for me. It seems you made my argument for me. And Paul did beseech the Lord 3 time but God allowed it the His grace would be shown to be sufficient. LT Shalom Larry, Again, the Word does NOT say that Paul was indwelt by the demon. You are adding to Scripture. That is NOT rightly dividing the Word. That is twisting it to fit your beliefs. It says what it says, and it does NOT say that the demon was indwelling Paul, so you cannot make that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted August 20, 2007 There is no evidence that the person whom Paul delivered over to Satan became demon-possessed. Very interesting you bring up Paul. Didn't he have a thorn IN THE FLESH, a messenger(angel) of Satan? Go figure. You can only freely give that which you have been freely given. LT Shalom LT, Let's rightly divide the Word of Truth. NO place does it say that Paul was possessed or needed deliverance. Satan can affect Christians, but he cannot indwell them. Paul did not seek deliverance or exorcism either, did he? NO! He sought Jesus. And Jesus said my grace is sufficient. If there was a demon that needed to be exorcised, it would have been, but as the Word shows, there was demon indwelling a Christian. You made my argument for me. but as the Word shows, there was NO demon indwelling a Christian. You made my argument for me. It seems you made my argument for me. And Paul did beseech the Lord 3 time but God allowed it the His grace would be shown to be sufficient. LT Shalom Larry, Again, the Word does NOT say that Paul was indwelt by the demon. You are adding to Scripture. That is NOT rightly dividing the Word. That is twisting it to fit your beliefs. It says what it says, and it does NOT say that the demon was indwelling Paul, so you cannot make that case. It says the demon was IN HIS FLESH, that sound like it was in him to me. Pretty plain. And I didn't say he was indwelt, except that it, the demon, was in his flesh. He was not possessed. It did affect him, he was oppressed to some degree(demonized), for he asked to be delivered from it w times. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 It says the demon was IN HIS FLESH, that sound like it was in him to me. Pretty plain. Shalom Larry, The Scripture does not say the demon was IN his flesh. The Christian's body belongs to the L-rd and no demon can be in a Christian's flesh. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? and you are not your own (1 Corinthians 6:19). The descriptive term "thorn in the flesh" was delivered by a messenger of satan to HARRASS him. It does not say the DEMON was in the flesh. Paul had a weakness, not a demon. And G-d said His grace was sufficient. He did not provide deliverance or exorcism. Paul never asked for exorcism Larry. Paul never asked for deliverance from demons. Don't add to Scripture. 2 Corinthians 12: 7So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted August 20, 2007 2 Corinthians 12: 7So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 2 Corinthians 12: 7So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong. It's easy VL, a thorn was given me in the flesh The thorn is in the flesh. , a messenger of Satan to harass me, This comma tells us that the thorn in the flesh is the messanger of Satan. So the obvious conclusion is that the demon is in the flesh. Do you not have eyes to see? LT Shalom Larry, That's rude. What I see is that you are trying to make a case for something that is NOT there in the Scriptures. You have come to a conclusion that is your assumption, not a Scriptural truth. It is neither obvious or correct. The Scripture does not say that the messenger of satan was in Paul's flesh, but the affliction whatever it was, was of the flesh. However, I will not go round and round with you concerning Paul since you already admitted that Paul was not indwelt by a messenger of satan. And as such, he would have no need of exorcism. In addition, I post again, the truth from Scriptures that we, Christians cannot have a demon in our flesh, as out bodies belong to the Holy Spirit. So your assertion that Paul had a demon in his flesh is incorrect hermeneutics. You cannot argue with the Scriptures Larry, no matter how much you want it to say something different, it says we Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? and you are not your own (1 Corinthians 6:19). I am still waiting for you to produce ONE Scripture which says a Christian needs exorcism or deliverance from a demon indwelling them. You have no stand without it. This thread is about exorcism BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted August 20, 2007 2 Corinthians 12: 7So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong. It's easy VL, a thorn was given me in the flesh The thorn is in the flesh. , a messenger of Satan to harass me, This comma tells us that the thorn in the flesh is the messenger of Satan. So the obvious conclusion is that the demon is in the flesh. Do you not have eyes to see? LT Shalom Larry, That's rude. What I see is that you are trying to make a case for something that is NOT there in the Scriptures. You have come to a conclusion that is your assumption, not a Scriptural truth. It is neither obvious or correct. The Scripture does not say that the messenger of satan was in Paul's flesh, but the affliction whatever it was, was of the flesh. However, I will not go round and round with you concerning Paul since you already admitted that Paul was not indwelt by a messenger of satan. And as such, he would have no need of exorcism. In addition, I post again, the truth from Scriptures that we, Christians cannot have a demon in our flesh, as out bodies belong to the Holy Spirit. So your assertion that Paul had a demon in his flesh is incorrect hermeneutics. You cannot argue with the Scriptures Larry, no matter how much you want it to say something different, it says we Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? and you are not your own (1 Corinthians 6:19). I am still waiting for you to produce ONE Scripture which says a Christian needs exorcism or deliverance from a demon indwelling them. You have no stand without it. This thread is about exorcism BTW. Your example of the temple has already been addressed. Additionally What did Ezekiel find in the temple of God? What did Jesus kick out of the Temple? And if our body is the temple, and I believe that it is, then how did Paul say the in his flesh dwelleth no good thing. And what was Jesus referring to when He told the woman that the children's bread should not be given to dogs? What is the children's bread in the contextural sense? These are scriptures I have already cited and you have not addressed. Please explain if you can. I have addressed your scriptural cites. LT PS. You can check my post at the biginning of this thread in reguard to exorcism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 Your example of the temple has already been addressed. Shalom Larry, Nope, it hasn't been between you and I. The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and as such CANNOT be infested, infected or anywise indwelt by demons. It is not possible. Additionally What did Ezekiel find in the temple of God? What did Jesus kick out of the Temple? And if our body is the temple, and I believe that it is, then how did Paul say the in his flesh dwelleth no good thing. You are making Straw man arguments that have nothing to do with the topic and the reference. The Scripture says this: Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? and you are not your own (1 Corinthians 6:19). You cannot argue this truth. The body belongs to G-d and as such cannot be infiltrated by demons. I have addressed your scriptural cites. Actually, you have not. You refuse repeatedly to produce ONE Scripture which shows a Christian being possessed or indwelt by demons needing deliverance. You have completely refused. Until you do so, you have no foundation to make your claims for you are outside of Scripture in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 experience the demons like i have and you might change your mind. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 they attack. i dont think you want to know HOW they do, but they do. if you were to experience that, or if the demons inside you were to manifest, you'd be saying something different about your "truth" of scripture. we can warp the bible to say anything we choose. "scripture says so" doesn't hold much weight. i can say the same thing to hold to my beliefs. you know what's always amazed me is where the bible says that no scripture is open to private interpretation. seems to me we've got private interpretations running around all over the place. your interpretation of scripture and mine are different. one cannot prove something doesn't exist--only that it does. my experience proves the existance of demons in a chritian's life. you only have the non-existance--which is no proof at all. neither one of us have scripture that blatently says demons can or cannot be inside a christian. you have the blood of Jesus; i have that, and the ot and what it says to the saints of that day. Jesus DID NOT abolish the law. i would say that "scripture clearly teaches this," but i hate it when people do that, so i won't. Shalom Maniac, You're making this personal. Sorry, it's not about me, or even you, it's about the truth from Scripture. I have no demons inside me, I can assure you of that. I know that because I am a born-again, Spirit-filled Christian and the Bible says that demons cannot indwell me. I can't begin to ascertain what your problem is, and no one here can because we don't know you, but I can stand firm on the truth from Scriptures that NO demons can indwell a born-again Spirit-filled Christian. It's not "non-existence", it's positive proof. No demon can dwell where the Holy Spirit resides. The Bible is clear on that. Yes, I have proof, I posted the Scriptures. Please read them, perhaps they will help you understand that Christians don't "have" demons and it might give you peace. Let me ask you this, here we are in the "exorcism" thread. If you truly believe that you are indwelt by demons, then why don't you find you an exorcist and get the demons cast out? Seems like the answer to me. As far as your "private interpretation" comment, everyone interprets Scripture Maniac. How we understand and interpret it is how we believe. You're using that verse incorrectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 21, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2007 Let me ask you this, here we are in the "exorcism" thread. If you truly believe that you are indwelt by demons, then why don't you find you an exorcist and get them cast out? Seems like the answer to me. i'm in the process of doing that. the problem is that satan is not the low-life many think him to be. ask michael, the angel. he wasn't an easy shot for him; how much less do you think mortals would be? satan has much more power than the people of God give him credit for. God's power is greater, no doubt. but satan's power is strong. he was, afterall, pretty high up in heaven. do you think that power just faded? he will do ALL HE CAN to torment those whom God loves. God set the tables in motion. He will not go back on His word. Justice not only belongs to us, it belongs to satan, too. when God set the rules in motion, he said satan could have access to people if they did certain things. He has not rescinded that. Jesus did not abolish the law--what God set in motion. we live by the grace of God thru Jesus. we also live in the consequences of breaking the law of God. the OT is not gone. God provided a better way in Jesus, but He also said God's law would not pass away. It hasn't. it's a matter of taking the WHOLE bible into account. the OT is not there for good reading. so what's it there for? so we can know how to live the free life Jesus promised! not there yet, but i believe i will be. Shalom Manic, I pray whatever you seek will work for you. You are giving satan more power than he actually has. We do not need to give him power, we need to stand on the fact that he is defeated and we need to stand on the Word. We need to put on the whole armor of G-d daily and use it.. We are not weak, defeated people who have no power! Jesus is the power. Too many people put too much focus on satan and not enough on Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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