Guest man Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 You have to prove that you love God. To whom? I would assume God. Why? Would not God already know that? 1 Samuel 16 7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” Why does the Lord search the heart? What's He looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 True. Baptism is important, because Jesus commanded it. But it has nothing to do with salvation. If Jesus commanded it, it must have a purpose. What is that purpose? By being baptized, you are proclaiming your belief in front of witnesses. Basically - you're making a public stand for Christ. Where is this stated in the bible? In case you missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted February 18, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2013 Matt 3:11 - I (John the Baptist) will baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one (Jesus Christ) who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. So it seems that it is the baptism from the Holy Spirit that is of most importance and not water baptism. If water baptism is a must, then there are no death bed conversions, and those who confess and believe do not make it into the Kingdom. Our only part in becoming "saved" is receiving/taking the free gift of Salvation through Jesus Christ. If we claim anything more that we did, then we can boast about it. It is not of our works that we become saved. Works come afterwards; which give us our rewards. Not Salvation. For who is strong enough to take us out of our Heavenly Fathers Hand. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted February 18, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted February 18, 2013 "the just shall live by faith" It is a statement that means that a persons works will be done according to the faith that Jesus is the express image of God and by following him they are actually righteous as opposed to following the law because there are many things that a man cannot be justified by the law even if he keep ever single precept perfectly. Hence why Romans says: Rom 3:26 To declare, [i say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. To believe in Jesus is to become a follower of Jesus and walk as he walked, getting back up and continuing on if you should fall. Falling is not mandatory but happens to many continuously who lack true understanding of what it means to be filled with and walk in the Spirit of God, having God do the works through you while you rest in him having become dead to sin. So we are told to exercise ourselves unto godliness. Why argue over whether something is or is not a requirement for eternal salvation? Why not just do what Jesus commanded and go get baptized? I couldn't wait to get baptized when I was found by Jesus and learned of his love. While no one can take away from what Jesus did in becoming a man, living, dying and being resurrected our eternal Lord, we can show ourselves as disobedient and in unbelief by not doing by faith that which was commanded of us by our loving Lord. It didn't work out to well for the Israelites in the wilderness either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) Matt 3:11 - I (John the Baptist) will baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one (Jesus Christ) who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. So it seems that it is the baptism from the Holy Spirit that is of most importance and not water baptism. If water baptism is a must, then there are no death bed conversions, and those who confess and believe do not make it into the Kingdom. Our only part in becoming "saved" is receiving/taking the free gift of Salvation through Jesus Christ. If we claim anything more that we did, then we can boast about it. It is not of our works that we become saved. Works come afterwards; which give us our rewards. Not Salvation. For who is strong enough to take us out of our Heavenly Fathers Hand. In Christ Montana Marv Actually, that verse makes no reference to the importance of baptism. However, the passage it is a part of does. Matthew 3 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” 13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?” 15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him. 16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Take note of what Jesus says in verse 15. "It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness". He's making a reference to baptism there. If baptism is a fulfillment of righteousness, what does that say about it's importance in the life of a believer? Also notice what John says regarding "works" in verse 10. Now let's jump forward to chapter 28. Matthew 28 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Most commonly known as "The Great Commission". Baptism appears to be a part of that commission. While baptism isn't a salvation requirement, it is a command that is given by Jesus Himself. Personally I don't believe it should be ignored or taught that it carries little weight in our walk. I also believe that even though it is an outward sign or expression of our commitment to Christ, it is more than that.................................much more. . Edited February 19, 2013 by GoldenEagle <<< Formatting... Fixed quotes to clarify who this was addressed to. >>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bible_Gazer Posted February 18, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 450 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 152 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/05/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2013 I think you must obey what you know to do by the commandments of God to stay saved. STAY saved? So, you believe it's by your power/works that you remain saved? You fail to keep all of God's commandments every single day! And by trying to justify yourself and your salvation by your works, you have placed yourself under a curse. (Gal. 3:10) All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” "The righteous will live by faith," not by works. But, law is not based on faith. It is based on works. (Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, again, “The righteous will live by faith.”--Gal. 3:11) All through the New Testament, it says a person is justified and saved simply by FAITH. Its talking about the old laws. The Old Laws could not bring life eternal. Are there any of Christ spiritual laws that we should live by ? Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments. You keeping the commandment shows your faith to God. So you are saved by faith as you quoted. Not just lip praise alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bible_Gazer Posted February 18, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 450 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 152 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/05/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2013 Underlined are you implying there is more than one salvation method? Is Jesus the only way? Curious. Some people are saved and baptized years later. Some people are saved and baptized emmidiately. Baptism like circumcision is a matter of the heart and the attitude one takes. Baptism is just a step in following Jesus's example - it doesn't save or make one more holy in God's eyes. Good discussion. God bless, GE 15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. 16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. 17 My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations Hosea 9:15-17 (KJV) Does God's love change ? Perhaps you'll address please the rest of the post? Particularly the comment in green. Then we can get into that question in red. What do you think? 1. question: I do believe in Jesus and his doctrine(commandments) is the only way I also believe what Jesus says we must do. 2.question: Baptism is not for show, its for your birth - to be born again. I do believe Jesus said you must be born again to enter in to the kingdom. so did he change on that sometime later ? How do you think on that ? . 1. Question: So did Jesus say "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me {and the commandments of God}"? John 14:6 The Law (the commandments) doesn't save my friend. There is no Jesus + {insert here} = salvation. 2. I believe being born again happens when one believes and confesses Jesus is Lord. You don't have to wait until baptism to be born again. Where do you get the idea in the Bible that baptism is required to be born again? God bless, GE John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Where do you get your scripture for your number 2 statement ? John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. If don't have God's love, I don't think you will be with him. Love saves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted February 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2013 Bible_Gazer Your above qoute: John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit. This is about Nicodemus' question; How can me being old enter again into my mothers womb and be born a second time. Being born of water is our birth process. When the water breaks, delivery of the baby comes soon. Then, later we can be born of the Spirit. This being born again is only for those of our human race, angels are not included. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Being born of water is our birth process. When the water breaks, delivery of the baby comes soon. Where is this explained in the bible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinky Posted February 19, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,602 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 291 Days Won: 8 Joined: 10/24/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1986 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Does that mean that if you die between the confession and the baptism, you would go to hell? This is important, because if that were the case, shouldn't every minister always have an immediate baptismal service right after an alter call? EXACTLY! Everyone who believes that baptism is required for salvation needs to ask their minister that very question! If it's essential for salvation, robes and towels should be on hand, and that baptismal tank should always be warmed up and ready to go! If salvation indeed depends upon it, If there isn't an immediate baptism after repentance, those ministers have the blood on their hands of those that die before baptism. Edited February 19, 2013 by GoldenEagle <<< Formatting... Fixed quotes to clarify who this was addressed to. >>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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