Roman Catholic Church Doctrine Definitely Exposed

[illini1959]

I'm new here, and not sure how to give a rep, but I agree with everything Spock said in post 106. I was not raised RCC, and while I know some of how they believe, I don't by any means claim to be an expert in it. It has been my experience, as Spock said, they can talk to you about their tradition and ritual - but not the Bible. My brother is very well versed in this, and posts a lot on the CARM website.

 

I have been saved most of my 54 years and have always had a burden for the lost. So I question all the time too - when someone has passed - did they accept Christ? I don't EVER mean to judge someone's heart....but I often wonder if people understood the way to salvation. I love the example Spock gave about asking "Why should God let you in Heaven" as that is one of the earliest things I learned, and it has served me well as far as giving me an idea of where someone may stand. Of course the only answer is because Jesus died for me, and I've accepted Him. 2 Corinthians 13:5 tells us to "Test yourselves, to see if you are in the faith. Examine yourselves!..." To me that means, don't always depend on what you are hearing, check it out for yourself to see if what you believe IS the Truth.

 

I wonder about my mom all the time. While she was not Catholic (or anything) I am not sure of where she is spending eternity. My dad, is another (wonderful) story and once I've built up some posts, I want to put my testimony on that board.

 

It's my prayer every day that God will draw people to Him, that it is not His will that any man perish, and that He will open their eyes to the deception of the enemy.

 

I have looked for a forum like this for a long time. Thank you!

[Spock]

I'm new here, and not sure how to give a rep, but I agree with everything Spock said in post 106. I was not raised RCC, and while I know some of how they believe, I don't by any means claim to be an expert in it. It has been my experience, as Spock said, they can talk to you about their tradition and ritual - but not the Bible. My brother is very well versed in this, and posts a lot on the CARM website.

I have been saved most of my 54 years and have always had a burden for the lost. So I question all the time too - when someone has passed - did they accept Christ? I don't EVER mean to judge someone's heart....but I often wonder if people understood the way to salvation. I love the example Spock gave about asking "Why should God let you in Heaven" as that is one of the earliest things I learned, and it has served me well as far as giving me an idea of where someone may stand. Of course the only answer is because Jesus died for me, and I've accepted Him. 2 Corinthians 13:5 tells us to "Test yourselves, to see if you are in the faith. Examine yourselves!..." To me that means, don't always depend on what you are hearing, check it out for yourself to see if what you believe IS the Truth.

I wonder about my mom all the time. While she was not Catholic (or anything) I am not sure of where she is spending eternity. My dad, is another (wonderful) story and once I've built up some posts, I want to put my testimony on that board.

It's my prayer every day that God will draw people to Him, that it is not His will that any man perish, and that He will open their eyes to the deception of the enemy.

I have looked for a forum like this for a long time. Thank you!

Awesome post and not just because you agree with me (although that was considered)! Lol

First impressions mean a lot to me, and my first impression of you is nothing short of WHAT A FANTASTIC BROTHER OR SISTER IN CHRIST. I hope you stick around, I especially love being around good souls like you. Plus, I can't wait to read your testimony. Hope it comes out soon.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Spock

[a-seeker]

Keep in mind that we have many brothers and sisters who do attend the RCC and we should NEVER use blanket statements against everyone in this denomination. We need to pray for them and help them see the error of their denominational doctrine and the truth of His word.

Also, keep in mind, while you are posting your replies, that this site does not allow the bashing of the RCC. You can discuss the doctrine you find to be against scripture, but not the church as a whole. Bringing false doctrine into light is what we should do. Claiming that the RCC and all those who attend are damned is not allowed.

For this reason, I have changed the title of this thread.

Amen, Amen, and Amen,

 

 

And NO, not an RC.  I disagree with many doctrines of the RC; but then I disagree with many doctrines within Protestantism.

 

The historical data given at the start of this thread is highly questionable.  Sounds like blatant propaganda; but I will have to do some resource. 

 

I agree with Leonard above, even if he and I will disagree on other things (presuming he is an RC; if not, apologies for the assumption).

 

 

There should, however, be a discussion in which Protestants and RCs can explain things to each other (excluding anyone who might see it as an arena for mudslinging).  How informative that would be!!!  Perhaps OneLight (it seems you have some authority in this?) could do something about that??

 

clb

[a-seeker]

I have seldom seen so much outright lunacy, nor half-truth, nor deliberate deception, gathered in ONE POST! it was truly breathtaking!

Surely you have read a little more than to just swallow the nonsense you've spouted?

My experience has been however, that it is USELESS to try to present factual information in such threads. Have a great time mutually admiring each other......

Hello Leonard,

 

I agree with your post.

 

I am a Protestant; but I would add to this that I am a "Unprotesting Protestant".

 

Are you a RC?

 

If so, there really should be a discussion in which Prots and RC's can talk and discuss without mudslinging.   I have so many questions....

[a-seeker]

I was born into a RCC family and my parents could talk to me about their traditions but never about the Bible. We didn't even own one. My dad thought these matters were only for the priests.

Anyhow, I was a rebel growing up, still am somewhat today, and I challenged and investigated everything. In other words, I didn't believe anything that was just told me unless I was convinced through my own study. I still remember the local priest coming to our house or me visiting him to discuss religious matters and how we would debate the scriptures. By the way, I completely agree with everything the OP stated as being RCC doctrine, false doctrine if you ask me.

Anyhow, the priest was so frustrated with me especially over the Mary issue that he finally said, "Why don't you become a Protestant, since you believe as they do?" Guess what, I did begin going to a Protestant church. That didn't last long though because I was not welcomed by some members because of my long hair ( yeah, I looked like a hippie). So, I said, I don't need to be around these hypocrites so I'm out of here, and for many years, I attended no congregation still in darkness about who Jesus really is and what his life and death means to me.

Bottom line, what bothers me most about RCC doctrine and traditions is that both my parents could never answer the question, I believe correctly, according to scripture when I asked them, "Dad, mom, why should God let you into Heaven if he asks you at your passing?"

It was always, "well, I'm a good person better than most...." and they really resisted me when I tried to show them the truth in the Bible- salvation by faith alone! John 3:16. In fact, I was told never to discuss religious things ever again with them. They were content with their religion and they didn't need mine. Why didn't they clearly know that salvation is a gift from god and cannot be earned, no matter how hard they tried? Ephesians 2

They both passed recently and what troubles me is never knowing if they ever really put their trust in Christ alone for their salvation, or did they still think somehow they deserved rewards because they were good people. Sigh! In my heart, I do believe the "confusing" RCC doctrine of salvation erroneously led them down the wrong path, and did not clearly show them the way to Jesus. Thus, I have to live with this uncertainty about their souls. Not a pleasant thought by the way. I know they repeated the Apostles Creed many a time at mass, but, did they really understand what they were saying? This is my biggest concern about the RCC doctrines - the salvation by faith alone doctrine not being clear enough. All the other issues that I find erroneous, like Mary being sinless and chaste, indulgences, purgatory, transubstantiation, popes, etc pale in comparison to the big one, the one that determines ones destiny. How do you get to Heaven?

Sorry for the long vent. I hope I haven't violated any rules here. I don't think I did, but maybe in my emotions here, I crossed the line. Let me be clear here - I love all people made in God's image and that includes Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, and atheists. What I don't love is false doctrine that separates people from God and truth.

Spock out

Hey Spock,

 

In my short time engaged in these forums I have enjoyed your posts.  What I value most in people is honesty; you seem to have that.

 

I admit that I am perhaps too analytic and so sometimes forget to remember emotions.  I enjoyed your post very much, so forgive any insensitivity.

 

I have a plethora of thoughts and questions but will narrow it down to two:   first, I have always been puzzled by the assumption that RC's aren't Christians (not, I take it, one of your assumptions; but definitely one of many above).  One of the main puzzles for me is historical.  You frequently pointed out to your parents the importance of grace; but then you had a Bible.  You had a Bible because Bibles are available.  They weren't for most of history pre-17th century.  Their knowledge of doctrine was communicated verbally, and they had no skills (literacy) or means (books) to test this.  What was delivered to them was "the WORD of God" and they accepted it; just as when someone picks up the KJV but knows no Greek (and perhaps doesn't even know that the Bible was written in Greek, or that Jesus spoke Aramaic) is regarded as "the Word of God."  Thus the "Christianity" they are given has been decided for them; there was no other to receive.  Do we then dismiss them (and therefore all, ALL so called Christians from 500-1400) as pagans, outside the boundary of Orthodox Christianity?

 

Again, I don't assume you think this; I do assume you can respond intelligently and honestly.

 

Question.....or getting to a question...: Is Protestantism absolutely immune from "loopholes"?  We accuse RC's of relying upon works; could RC;s not easily accuse us of relying upon "belief"?  I know a man who lives a life few in this forum would admire: but he says, "I believe in Christ, not works...I was taught that only faith can save me.  You're telling me I have to stop doing x and y?  I tell you you are relying upon works!"

 

Of course we would explain all sorts of nuances like "true works flows out of belief" and such; but could not RC's say "EXACTLY!  You all talk about FAITH so much but talk is cheap!  Walk the Walk!"  Is ONE difference between RC's and P's not so much doctrine than it is emphasis on doctrine?  the strange relationship between faith and works; as Paul says, WORK out your FAITH with fear and trembling, for it is GOD who WORKETH FOR YOU?

 

Again, no intention of stepping on toes.

 

your thoughts?

 

clb

[gray wolf]

As a RC, let me just state that I do not accept ALL the teachings of the Church, especially those that are not really bible based. But the basics are pretty solid.

[a-seeker]

First of all I do know a couple of Roman Catholics. I have also known Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you don’t know thoroughly about these groups you should know this. All 3 of them say “We are the One True Church.” Catholics, Mormons, and Witnesses all claim to be higher than other Christian denominations. Who therefore is being a Judge of men? .

I have learned just recently that Jerusalem is a city built on 7 Hills. Olives being the highest ironically. But as usual Romans want their own 7 Hills to make themselves Holy. Do you know of the Apocrypha? 14 chapters have been added to the Holy Bible. Who has consented to them to add 14 Chapters to the Holy Bible when it ended at Revelations? .

People walk to kiss the hand of the pope. They call their priest Father. That is Blaspheme if I ever heard it. The Bible tells us clearly call No one Father for we already have one who is God in Heaven. Jesus has been replaced to pray to all other being except Jesus. Therefore then what reason did Jesus die on the cross that others in place should be prayed to?

You call us a judge because we don’t like the teachings of a particular Church. So therefore when Paul wrote the Epistles to each Church specifically teaching them their conduct in God whether it is good or unacceptable to God. How is it then that Paul is judging these Churches? Rather see in the eyes of God that setting them straight leads them to salvation unto Christ Jesus. But if they continue to teach and follow after false doctrines their way of is Destruction.

Yet if you really love them you would reveal the Truth. For the Bible does teach us God is the Light whom that reveals all secrets and all places of darkness. See that in Daniel Chapter 2.

Not only did Paul write to a specific Church, we also have 7 specific Churches told to us in Revelations written by John. John the Baptist also said to the Pharisees and Sadducees You brood of vipers who warned you to flee from the wrath of God?

But please do not mistake that we hate those who attend RC Churches. Certainly we Love them as we also Love Christians Friends and Family. But should I be as Joel Osteen telling everyone Friends I want to tell you all that is good. For if I share with you bad you shall be offended. How then can Truth be revealed if we protect what is not the True Gospel of God? We have a right to claim a whole Church such as even Westboro for example. The form and kind of practices reveals what kind of Church it is. We are against the teaching not the members of that Church. I consider these member to be victims of False doctrines they don’t understand. The Bible teaches many people perish of lack of knowledge. Sometimes Jesus offends others in so much they wanted to stone him to death.

I’ve seen plenty of forums who allow all on them. And what I will share is this. Christians are being erased of all these forums. Not allowed to say anything against Catholics. Not allowed to speak again Gay marriage. Not allowed to speak of atheist. If you don’t believe me I will show you a few forums who don’t allow Biblical teaches in place of accepting these groups of people.

If you go at this pace they will gain leverage and it will be an offense to teach the Bible the way it was intended to be taught.

Our friends who are in RC know we don’t agree with their teachings. It has not in the least change our relationships. But we can’t make the Gospel pleasing to them as they would hope it would bend their way. But as Christians we always know the Word does not bend for anyone. It is God’s way sand His laws. This does not mean of strictness and harshness. Rather it means to walk the way of Narrow and straight among one path. Straight a path The Gate that leads to God. Jesus is The Gate. If we put Mary at the Gate how is that speaking Truth? Yet the RC Church has placed her at the Gate. Tell me I’m wrong for saying this.

Only Jesus is at Gate and is the Gate.

Christians are losing their freedom of speech everywhere I am looking. And everyone else says including atheists and all other groups. Be judged or you will be judged. Therefore become as us so you won’t be judged. Nice try Satan nice try call me a judge but I warn you of the false teachings. I believe in Salvation. Not of Damnation if you become compromising to all this none is yet to be saved. You have not offended but not one was saved. Jesus does not want anyone to go to Hell. If you remain silent where is the Salvation in this? The people of this Church I don’t hate. Its teachings I do hate. God hated the teaching of the Nicolatians. Why can’t I also hate the RC teachings? Is this being unchristian? If I Love everything if I accept everything then God amounts to a God of Chaos. Paul wrote these letters to these specific Churches not to Judge them but to save them. I in likewise am concerned about Salvation. If I am not liked here because I don’t want some to believe in False Teachings Atheist and pro Gay also hate me. This is part of the last days.

The point that RC's claim to be a higher church lacks any real punch since this entire thread begin with the assumption that they were lower (thereby making us higher).

 

Just curious:  what did you call your dad?  Would it be alright if RC's called the Pope "Papa" or "Padre" or "Daddy"?  Or did I blaspheme as a child when I didn't use my Dad's first name?

 

By chapters of the apocrypha I take it you mean books.  Technically speaking, RC's didn't add 14 books; we removed them at the Reformation; they have actually been in the RC's Bible longer than they've been absent from ours!  We removed them, I believe, based on linguistic reasons (the Deuterocanonical works were written not in Hebrew but Greek) and because the Old Testament did not contain them in Jesus' time....the latter part I am a bit hazy on.  What I am not hazy on is the fact that it was WE who removed them, not THEY who added them.

 

Perhaps minor points...

[gray wolf]

And no, the Catholic Chirch does not keep the hate of Heaven. Everyone knows it's Peter!