Adam And Eve - Just An Allegory?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

Shiloh

 

What I want from you is the argument that the evolutionists in question gave that convinced you that you cannot subscribe to both evolutionary theory (as I have defined as species from common descent) and believe that God  created everything. You have repeatedly stated 'they' told you this. I have repeatedly asked for what it is that they argued that you have found so compelling. So... why do you think this so strongly?

 

 

Gen. 1:21

So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

 

 

What does "according to their kinds" mean to you?

 

 

According to the standard evolutionary model, all life has "a common ancestor."

 

Yet this theory has yet to find the evidence for the arising of this thing we call life - a functioning, self-sustaining cell. (A new "kind" arising from previously existing different "kind".)

 

This theory also fails to to explain how the different "kingdoms" as we classify them arose. (What is the ancient non-animal ancestor from which the first "animal" came? At what stage of development did it go from bacteria/plant/whatever to animal? There is not hard core evidence for this; rather, there are fill-in-the-blank arguments to explain what "must" have happened.)

 

From what ancient "ancestor" did the canines arise? What evidence is there that some non-canine animal population mutated adaptive changes to their anatomy and physiology to enable then to be a completely new kind of creature?

 

If you want to discuss the evidence for evolution that's cool, but that is really a different topic and should be in a different thread.

 

As far as creating in kinds go, as I take that as part of the 'non literal' account of God's creative activities I'm not sure why I'd dissect that term.

 

Non-literal??   How convenient.   In other words, the Bible is servant to what you are willing to accept.  God's word has no authority to tell us how life began and how God organized the created order.  Why believe anything else God says in His word?

[enoob57]

I'd say the primary reality is God, either way you cut it.

 

The demonic forces believe  and tremble they don't seem to be cutting it through the primary reality!

James 2:19-20

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe — and tremble!

NKJV

Those who believe TE is true are at a vast distance from His Word of Truth and if the path is narrow and few that find it->

what is left for the heart but to yield to their own resource of science or God's Word.... Love, Steven

 

[Gandalf]

s

The question in my mind then is, when I read the Bible, should I be looking *primarily* for scientifically accurate accounts, or even overly focused on historical happenings (though obviously I think the large majority of it is historically accurate), if the Bible uses these accounts primarily to communicate to us the greater reality of God's existence, sovereignty, purpose of our existence and so on. I'm not against discussing these things, but they could only have a secondary type of importance.

Bary I wanted to address this Theological Window of God's Purpose you speak of:

Like the reason I gave of God's giving Moses an account of how God began things Ex 33:11(the Friend speaking to friend context) so also

now this suggestion within you of primary and secondary importance must be brought into this context! We know that before God

created 'WAS' God Jn 4:24, Jn 1 ... we know by all The Writ of God that the created element of beginning had infinite possibilities as scientific laws

are maintained and controlled by God but God is not bound in submission to those laws Rm 1:20 leaving creative laws secondary to the infinite

reality of God... as God has spoken these last days Through His Son and primary importance of God 'IS' fully revealed The New Heaven and New

Earth of eternity cannot be understood now by what is made-

1 Cor 2:9

9 But as it is written:

"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,

Nor have entered into the heart of man

The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."

NKJV

so as God has settled the division aspect of primary and secondary in definition by that which He keeps of present creation (His Word, souls of men)

into eternal state and that which He does not keep but ultimately destroys as though it never was

2 Peter 3:7-13

7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until

the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with

the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack

concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any

should perish but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in

the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent

heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.  11 Therefore, since all these things

will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for

and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire,

and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new

heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

NKJV

Because God has began us in these elements by which He knew He was not keeping and we walk in The Spirit of faith in believing

we are transformed into a people who live in a place not yet existing successfully transforming us into The Children of Abraham by

his beginnings

Heb 11:8-10

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an

inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of

promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same

promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

NKJV

If we put anything of temporary before that which is eternal we have effectively made an idol within our heart! 

Thus the understanding of this

Heb 10:34-39

34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods,

knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven.  35 Therefore

do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so

that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.

38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

NKJV

Love, Steven

 

I'd say the primary reality is God, either way you cut it.

Yes, that has to be true. Our interpretation of Scripture is fallible, as we can see from many "Worthy" threads. God is God and is not swayed by people's opinion of Him.

[enoob57]

 

Yes, that has to be true. Our interpretation of Scripture is fallible, as we can see from many "Worthy" threads. God is God and is not swayed by people's opinion of Him.

 

Anyone operating outside of The Holy Spirit will misinterpret Scripture! That is why God says we are to yield fully to Spirit

that He may form His Truth (Scripture) within us -or- do you deny God's promise here?

Hos 2:20-23

20 I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness,

And you shall know the Lord.

21 "It shall come to pass in that day

That I will answer," says the Lord;

"I will answer the heavens,

And they shall answer the earth.

22 The earth shall answer

With grain,

With new wine,

And with oil;

23 Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth,

And I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy;

Then I will say to those who were not My people,

'You are My people!'

And they shall say, 'You are my God!'"

NKJV

John 8:31-32

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

NKJV

Love, Steven

[Gandalf]

Yes, that has to be true. Our interpretation of Scripture is fallible, as we can see from many "Worthy" threads. God is God and is not swayed by people's opinion of Him.

Anyone operating outside of The Holy Spirit will misinterpret Scripture! That is why God says we are to yield fully to Spirit

that He may form His Truth (Scripture) within us -or- do you deny God's promise here?

Hos 2:20-23

20 I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness,

And you shall know the Lord.

21 "It shall come to pass in that day

That I will answer," says the Lord;

"I will answer the heavens,

And they shall answer the earth.

22 The earth shall answer

With grain,

With new wine,

And with oil;

23 Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth,

And I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy;

Then I will say to those who were not My people,

'You are My people!'

And they shall say, 'You are my God!'"

NKJV

John 8:31-32

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

NKJV

Love, Steven

Many operating inside of the holy Spirit seem also to misinterpret some of Scripture. Else we would not have so many lively debates on Worthy! Human beings are fallible, even when they personally think they have the mind of the Spirit.

[enoob57]

 

 

Many operating inside of the holy Spirit seem also to misinterpret some of Scripture. Else we would not have so many lively debates on Worthy! Human beings are fallible, even when they personally think they have the mind of the Spirit.

 

 This is not a journey of comparatives of who's who or whats what... but a 100% focus upon The Lord and His Word

as we obey this we will be in less error and more of what we are will be preserved in Him....

I cannot love you rightly until I have done this fully

Mark 12:30

 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul,

with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.

NKJV

Love, Steven

[Guest]

Many operating inside of the holy Spirit seem also to misinterpret some of Scripture. Else we would not have so many lively debates on Worthy! Human beings are fallible, even when they personally think they have the mind of the Spirit.

 

~

 

I Believe

 

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

In Jesus

 

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

 

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:9-14

 

Love, Joe

[~candice~]

Hello

 

I have insomnia so here I am!

 

Just wanted to comment on this:

 

They clearly communicated that evolution is an impersonal process from start to finish and there is NO intellgent causality. 

 

Evolution is a methodological scientific explanation for the diversity of life. It isn't an explanation for the origin or meaning of life. That is, evolution is not arising from philosophical naturalism, it is arising from methodological naturalism. When a scientist comes along and says that evolution requires no creator and no intelligent guiding force, i.e. NO GOD, they are no longer talking about science, but about philosophy. That scientist has stepped out of the methodological bounds and into naturalism.

 

Does that mean that evolution is entirely naturalistic? No. Just because a scientist decided to be a philosopher for a day, doesn't mean we need to take their opinion on board as "gospel".  What it does mean is that the vast majority of evolutionists put evolution into a naturalistic context. But that is a vastly different conclusion to "evolution is naturalistic".

 

So when Christians suggest that God could have used evolution, they aren't talking about an oxymoron. They are just suggesting a mode of creation.

 

I must say it feels quite frustrating that this point isn't yet appreciated. 

[George]

Just out of curiosity, how does one that is a believer reconcile these two thoughts?

 

In John 5, Jesus said, 

 

"John 5:45-47  Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.  But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"

 

If our account of creation is based on Moses' writings, how can you reconcile a different account of creation, while at the same time reconcile this statement -- "if you don't believe Moses, how can you believe in Jesus?"

 

Just so you know, I'm not writing this to be "combative" but rather how can someone reconcile these two very different thoughts in their belief system?

 

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

 

George

[~candice~]

George - they do believe the writings! They believe the writings mean "X", and they believe "X". The YEC's believe the writings say "Y" and they believe "Y".

 

Let me tell you why I am so passionate about this topic.

 

I've interpreted the bible wrong in the past.

 

I've been wrong - DEAD WRONG!

 

LOL

 

I believed (and still do) that the bible is absolutely correct - but it needs interpretation and sometimes we get it wrong.

 

We aren't risking our salvation when we get this stuff wrong, i.e. when we err in interpretation. We believe it, but we get it wrong. No big deal - grace covers us! It is important to be passionate about getting it right, but I just don't think it is worth the harsh words to criticise others for what is likely an honest misinterpretation.

 

My two bucks .