Stephen Hawking: The Big Bang Without God

[Tinky]

http://science.nbcne...ithout-god?lite

Quote: "M-theory posits that multiple universes are created out of nothing, Hawking explained..."

Romans 1:22

[Guest ninhao]

Therefore, time began at the moment of singularity, and this has likely occurred only once, Hawking said.

time? ( creation )

Mr Hawking is closer to the truth than he knows

Lord have mercy.

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

http://science.nbcne...ithout-god?lite

Quote: "M-theory posits that multiple universes are created out of nothing, Hawking explained..."

Romans 1:22

But in fact, what Prof. Hawking neglects to mention is that he can only even make this statement according to a disingenuous slight-of-hand, in redefining the word 'nothing' to mean 'something'. The word 'nothing' means ‘without being; totally absent of properties’. However, physicists today have disingenuously redefined the word to mean a rich, boiling quantum energy field, as per the admission of the illustrious Dr. Lawrence Krauss, "“By 'nothing,' I don't mean nothing. Nothing isn't nothing anymore in physics. Empty space is not empty. “Nothing is really a bubbling, boiling brew of virtual particles.” (Lawrence Krauss, “A Universe from Nothing,” Atheist Alliance International, 2009, www.youtube.com/watch?v=71mv1S8PL1o).

In fact, this is simply a very weak attempt to shift the same problem to a larger stage. Just a little background for clarification might help here: Standard particle physics requires that the cosmos came into being a finite time ago, but there are no theories in physics that could account for how such an event could happen, as no physical mechanism is known that can create energy or initiate the expansion of that which popped into being apparently ex nihilio.

So, instead of accepting that perhaps the cause was not physical, support is sought at the quantum level and in string theory. At the quantum level things seem to behave very strangely, so basically what physicists are doing is saying is that at the quantum level things can pop into existence uncaused out of nothing - which we've seen is only true if you redefine ‘nothing’ to mean ‘something’, which is in fact the polar opposite of the true meaning of the word. Things coming into existence from a quantum vacuum is no problem at all - but the advent of the cosmos which contained this vacuum was the question all along and remains entirely unaccounted for.

The problem still exists then in this very real sense, but not in this sense alone.

Another problem is that quantum physics and particle physics just don't gel with one another. Hence, the M theory. In particle physics everything is made up of atoms, and the atoms are made of sub-atomic particles called quarks. In order to explain the discrepancies between particle physics and quantum physics a theory was put forth that perhaps those quarks are actually not particles but bands or 'strings' of energy, hence ‘string’ theory was a mathematical investigation of the possibility of strings at the base of physical reality, and was hoped could potentially come out with a unified theory of physics.

Now, string theory is still under development, so apart from being totally theoretical and un-testable (and therefore arguably not even science in the strictest sense), a number of rivaling string theories initially emerged, all competing with one another, until M Theory was developed, claiming to unify the previous competitors in a single theory that posits 11 dimensions, along which not only strings exists but also trans-dimensional objects such as membranes (called 'branes' for short).

Now, it is theoretically possible within M Theory that after the cosmos came into being (remember, we still have no capacity to suggest it came into being from non-being) as it expanded pockets of self contained universes could pop into existence due to energy fluctuations, and as the cosmos continued to expand the openings between self-contained pockets (or universes) create more individual, self-contained universes in the empty space within the large cosmos (or multiverse), themselves ever expanding outward.

The problem is that it makes no difference whether we entertain the unparsimonious extravagance of positing a multiverse (in the words of Prof. Richard Dawkins), since irrespective of whether the cosmos is a single universe, or a self-contained pocket within a greater multiverse, it escapes none of the evidence that shows the cosmos came into being a finite time ago from literally nothing, as Dr. Alexander Vilenkin demonstrated in the paper which he presented at none other than Hawking’s 70^th Birthday bash. All the data show that any continually expanding model cannot extend back into the infinite past, so it makes no difference at all whether we’re talking about a universe of multiverse - instead of answering the question of the origin of the cosmos, it simply moves the question back onto a larger stage.

So, what we're left with is incomplete, totally speculative, competing versions of cosmogony which do absolutely nothing to either answer the question of where the universe came from, or challenge the theist's assertion that since things don't pop into existence uncaused out of nothing, then space-time finds its only rational origin in a timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal cause, which are attributes we've always associated with the Creator who is forever to be praised, amen.

God bless.

[Tinky]

"M-theory posits that multiple universes are created out of nothing, Hawking explained..."

It's that very statement that atheists have been denying all of this time, because to say the universe created itself from nothing is intellectual suicide.

[Guest]

"M-theory posits that multiple universes are created out of nothing, Hawking explained..."

It's that very statement that atheists have been denying all of this time, because to say the universe created itself from nothing is intellectual suicide.

Amen~!

Intellectually Wise, God's Got The Whole Lot Of Us Beat Hands Down

And To Conclude That Matter Has Not Always Existed Undercuts All Pagan Religions

Including The Current Ever Shrinking ToE Fable, For To The Pagan Believer

Matter Always Was And Is And That From Matter Flows

All gods And godlets And Everything Else Too

[ByFaithAlone]

http://science.nbcne...ithout-god?lite

Quote: "M-theory posits that multiple universes are created out of nothing, Hawking explained..."

Romans 1:22

I think that ironically a Christian can and should agree with the idea that the universe was created out of nothing (ex nihilo) however Hawking is arguing that the universe came about from nothing and by nothing. The first part is fine on scientific, philosophical and theological reasons and creation ex nihilo is a widely held Christian position. This second bolded part poses a problem on philosophical and scientific levels.

[Paladin39]

OK, arguendo, the universe is the result of a supernatural being(s) and was deliberately created every atom, every life form.

So what?

WHAt being? How do you know? Why your favorite invisible friend and not Zeus? And assuming such creatures existed WHY would they care?

Edited May 15, 2013 by GoldenEagle
<<< Edited out implied profanity. Please follow the ToS>>>

[GoldenEagle]

OK, arguendo, the universe is the result of a supernatural being(s) and was deliberately created every atom, every life form.

So what?

WHAt being? How do you know? Why your favorite invisible friend and not Zeus? And assuming such creatures existed WHY would they care?

Welcome to the forums Paladin39. Who was this post addressed to please?

Also, I have removed your implied use of profanity. This is not allowed.

From the ToS (Terms of Service or Board Rules)...

The use of profanity will not be tolerated. This includes sexually explicit, vulgar, or other profane language or usernames as well as any any signs or symbols that suggests such. Do not post sexually explicit, vulgar or offensive website addresses (URL's) to the forum. (Eph. 4: 29)

For greater understanding Worthy is a private Christian ministry based out of Israel that happens to have a discussion board (WCF). This is our statement of faith. A reminder please it is possible to disagree on a doctrine or subject without insulting those with whom you are debating. Also, you may not post insults concerning our faith, God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or the Bible. Please discuss the subject at hand without insults. Please be respectful of our Christian belief system.

From the ToS

It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person.

You may not post any material that is disrespectful of God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or the Bible. This includes user names or anything in your profile, or sig. (Ex. 20:7)

What is the purpose of the Outer Court? The purpose of the OC (where this thread was started) is not to bash Christians (i.e. terms like "your favorite invisible friend" and "Zeus") or our faith but to ask questions and learn.

From the ToS...

There are two main sections to Worthy Boards, the Inner Court and the Outer Court. The Inner court is designed for fellowship and discussion among those who know Jesus Christ as Savior. The outer Court is an area where we allow anyone who wishes to learn more about our belief to ask questons and learn. Those who join Worthy who do not claim Christ as Savior will be designated "nonbeliever'. This designation will mean that they will only be able to post in the Outer Court area. They can read every part of the Forums, but their discussions will be limited to one area.

God bless you.

GE

[MorningGlory]

OK, arguendo, the universe is the result of a supernatural being(s) and was deliberately created every atom, every life form.

So what?

WHAt being? How do you know? Why your favorite invisible friend and not Zeus? And assuming such creatures existed WHY would they care?

We can only assume that YOU exist, my friend. Why would YOU care if the Creator cares?

[Guest]

What's It All About

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

What

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

~

OK, arguendo, the universe is the result of a supernatural being(s) and was deliberately created every atom, every life form.

So what?

What being? How do you know? Why your favorite invisible friend and not Zeus? And assuming such creatures existed WHY would they care?

So

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10

What

And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle? Jonah 4:11

If You Stew

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. Psalms 2:1-3

For All Eternity

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48

Who Cares

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3

Who

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

~

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20

Love, Joe