A question of ethics

[~candice~]

So if I'm on food stamps, and a friend comes around, I'm not allowed to offer a teaspoon of (purchased with foodstamps) instant coffee in hot water to my friend?

If I'm on food stamps, I can't voluntarily go hungry and offer the meal I avoided to someone else?

Are yall for real???

[Laura]

Well Candice, that seems to be what some are saying

I have not posted on this, as my ideas are different than most of you. I had a discussion about this yesterday with a person that had been on Food Stamps several years ago. They said the same thing, just for familiy, etc.

My thoughts are: Who really knows where the money or ingredients came from for the lady that made the cookies? Folks are assuming the cookies she made were from items bought with the Food Stamps. That might not be the truth at all. She may have had gifts so to speak from others, and is sharing what she had.

Actually, I would have no problem feeding someone that was in need even if I were on Food Stamps, if there was truly a need. I guess I have known and still know, many people that can not even get into the program when there is a REAL need, due to so many that abuse the system. Just my thoughts and no, I did not vote

[Guest man]

So if I'm on food stamps, and a friend comes around, I'm not allowed to offer a teaspoon of (purchased with foodstamps) instant coffee in hot water to my friend?

If I'm on food stamps, I can't voluntarily go hungry and offer the meal I avoided to someone else?

Are yall for real???

Disturbing, isn't it?

[~candice~]

So if I'm on food stamps, and a friend comes around, I'm not allowed to offer a teaspoon of (purchased with foodstamps) instant coffee in hot water to my friend?

If I'm on food stamps, I can't voluntarily go hungry and offer the meal I avoided to someone else?

Are yall for real???

Disturbing, isn't it?

What is most disturbing is the thought that the government will give you food stamps, but you don't have the liberty to be responsible enough to manage it, within the right intentions, on your own.

I think God cares about our hearts and intentions. Tripping over technicalities and living life tied in knots with guilt over things that are "in the spirit of the rules" scares me. He who the Son sets free is free indeed. Not even the government is going to be this legalistic about food use.

Seriously guys, what about all the people on food stamps on this very forum. Do we all realise the pressure we put on them to be so legalistic that they can't even give their food to a child or offer a biscuit to a guest? That stinks.

[Guest man]

Seriously guys, what about all the people on food stamps on this very forum. Do we all realise the pressure we put on them to be so legalistic that they can't even give their food to a child or offer a biscuit to a guest? That stinks.

It's really sad that we're treated like pariahs. I include myself because a few months ago I was on food stamps.

Yeah, there are people who abuse the system, but not everyone that gets a handout wants one. Lumping us all together as one is like saying the Westboro Baptist Church represents everything christian.

[Qnts2]

Ok. Interesting question.

I hope you all don't mind, but there is a story from Judaism which is used to explain this kind of thing.

A Rabbi knew of a family which was in dire need of food. As he walked by their home, he noticed an old bucket with holes in it. He walked up to the door, knocked, and when the man came to the door the Rabbi told him that he was in need of a bucket like the one sitting on the porch, and would the man consider selling the bucket. The Rabbi said a bucket like that one was very hard to find and he would be willing to pay $30 for it if the man could possibly part with it. The man agreed to sell the bucket for $30.

Rabbis are teachers and normally travel with their closest students. As the Rabbi and the students walked down the road, the Rabbi carrying his bucket, the students asked the Rabbi why he bought a useless bucket. Why not just give the man money to help feed his family. The Rabbi responded that he did not want to demoralize the man but to preserve his dignity. A person who is demoralized loses his drive but a person who retains his dignity will be able to continue seeking and working.

So, in my view, given our current government in the states provides food for needy families, a failure is that by doing that, they can provide a culture of those without true dignity but become dependent on the state. Simply put, a person on welfare who is able to entertain friends, or offer something to charity, is a person who retains their dignity.

So if a person buys seeds with their food stamps, and grows an abundant crop, so that they can sell excess, or make jellies or pickles out of the excess and sell them, this isn't a bad thing. It preserves their dignity of providing for their family and might be the way off of assistance.

On the other hand, there are certainly people who cheat the welfare system, such as those who might sell the food for a drug habit which hurts their children. But, if I were to choose, it would be to preserve their dignity and find a way to help people off of assistance rather then making sure no one gets a drop more then they absolutely need.

[Guest LadyC]

candice and man... follow as the Holy Spirit convicts you, not how people on this forum condemn you. stay right with God and don't let others heap guilt on you.... guilt is not of God.

[back2thebible]

Jesus answers this question Mathew 20:1-16

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. ² Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. ³ And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, ⁴ and said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. ⁵ Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. ⁶ And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle,^[a] and said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day?’ ⁷ They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’^[b]

⁸ “So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’ ⁹ And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. ¹⁰ But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. ¹¹ And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, ¹² saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’ ¹³ But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? ¹⁴ Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. ¹⁵ Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’ ¹⁶ So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.

once someone receives somthing its is their own property and they have every right to do with it as they see fit

[Guest LadyC]

Food stamps also shouldn't be accepted in restaurants, or even with some of the more expensive foods, in my opinion. Basic necessities, healthy food, store brand only stuff, and maybe a few extras but not a lot, and stuff like diapers. Just my opinion on it.

the_Patriot:

food stamps aren't accepted in restaurants, or on cooked chicken or other prepared food in grocery stores.

food stamps aren't accepted for stuff like diapers, toilet papers, or other necessities.

but the part i want to really address is your opinion that only store brand food, never anything "expensive" should be allowed. really, patriot, i don't think you realize how "big brother-ish" that is... and that you'd prefer the government to put more restrictions and conditions on food stamp use than they do.

i'm reminded of an incident several years ago. i was physically managing the food pantry at my church. i'd really like to share it with you, because it goes to the heart of the "expensive foods" you were talking about, i think.

i was responsible for the day to day operations. i wasn't paid for my work, but i put in about 35 hours a week (although the food pantry doors were only open to the public 4 hours per week.) i drove to the main food bank that supplied the pantries in town. i (and a helper) selected what we needed, stood in line, had it weighed, got the invoice, returned it to the pastor for payment, stocked the food on the shelves, and in the fridge and freezer.

but... my pastor had instated a figurehead over me. she was the wife of an assistant pastor. she, her husband and poodle lived alone in an $850,000 home. (i know that, because she proudly boasted to me how much it had been appraised at the previous year when i visited her.) this woman never came to the food bank or involved herself with its operations other than to bark orders over the phone... or to occasionally bring in someone she knew and load them up with four times the amount of food we were supposed to provide per family.

now, here is what we would pay for the food we obtained...

9 cents per pound for meat (chicken, steak, hamburger, pork, etc) and boxed goods (mac & cheese) and things like rice, peanut butter and canned goods.

91 cents (yes, you read that right) per pound of canned meats (tuna, chunk chicken, etc).

0 cents (free) dairy, produce, and and bread.

additionally, we had a delivery truck make weekly drops to our food pantry. ANYTHING on the truck was free, which ALWAYS INCLUDED meats of all sorts... which means that when combined with what we purchased at the warehouse, we were averaging about a nickle per pound for meat instead of the 9 cents... making it the most cost efficient food that we had to actually pay for.

the figurehead i was supposed to submit to called me and raked me over the coals about providing meat. in her very own words, if these people can't work for a living, they do not deserve the luxury of eating meat. i was ordered to stop getting and providing meat of any kind EXCEPT for tuna, chunk chicken, and the other yucky crap that comes in cans. when i tried to reason with her, she said some very un-Christ-like things to me at the top of her lungs. i hung up the phone in the middle of her tirade, went to the church, and turned in my key. i was not about to submit to the authority of someone who had zero business sense and even less compassion.

patriot, i'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but your comment sounded very much like that figurehead. she had such disdain for people who were struggling that she forgot how to represent Christ. vegas was leading the nation in foreclosures... the economy was worse there than ANYWHERE ELSE in america, and she would rather punish people with canned tuna than to allow them the luxury of feeding their family a steak that cost ten times LESS than the tuna she was pushing. that doesn't show the love of Christ, and it doesn't give people any encouragement to keep trying. it's like kicking a dog in the head after its hind legs have been run over. it wasn't a biblical position, and it wasn't a political position (i.e., it wasn't the church or the pastor who was pushing for this, it was only the figurehead who wanted to assert her own authority.)

so consider the limitations that the government is already placing on the use of food stamps... yes, there is fraud, no doubt. but obtaining them fraudulently or selling them for 50-cents on the dollar (which happens all the time so that people can buy smokes and liquor) is not even in the same league as buying non-essential luxury items like the expensive food that you said shouldn't be bought. even the government does not go that far! be careful not to be contemptuous of those who are less fortunate than you are.

[The_Patriot21]

Let me address some issues here. First off I'm addressing food stamps-not food pantries, that's another topic entirely so im not going to address it here. Second, as I said I'm not opposed to people sharing stamps and food with people who need food, in fact if they do have extra that is what I think they should do. What I'm opposed to is them using them for anything that generates money-even if its for a good cause.

Secondly you need to wake up there are restaurants that accept food stamps. And if your state limits what food can be bought that's great but not all states do. And only store brand is not big brotherish its wise money management. When I can't afford the name brand u buy the store brand-why? Because I can't afford it. Yet, people who can't afford any food are rewarded with high dollar stuff I can't even buy? That's not helping that's enabling them. Period. Give them the necessities and that's it-anymore is enabling and a waste of tax dollars that could be spent elsewhere

Honestly though, food stamps are a sign of church failure. I just heard less then 5% if Christians tithe in the us. If that were 100% and the churches did their job we wouldn't even have to have food stamps because the church would feed the needy.