JDavis Posted July 16, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,740 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 183 Days Won: 7 Joined: 07/02/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1964 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 I am not trying to sow discontent, I am trying to put together evidence that not all lies or deceptions are sins. I have seen it put forth as Righteous vs Evil deception. That not unlike killing, God does not view them all the same. I do not believe that Rahab sinned when she lied about the spies. I do not believe that the midwives sinned when they lied to Pharaoh about the Hebrew babies. Joshua and Gideon and Tamar all used deception and I do not believe they were sinning when they did so. And in the same train of thought, I do believe that Jesus knew he was going to go to the feast and the he misled his brothers for a righteous purpose. Then I would advise that you not use the word Jesus and deceive in the same sentence? There is only one deceiver and it is not Jesus. Is all deception evil and wrong? was God wrong to use deception in the battle that Gideon fought? God is never wrong, never. But then again His motive is always Love. Ours, not so much. so then, not all deception is wrong or evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 16, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I am not trying to sow discontent, I am trying to put together evidence that not all lies or deceptions are sins. I have seen it put forth as Righteous vs Evil deception. That not unlike killing, God does not view them all the same. I do not believe that Rahab sinned when she lied about the spies. I do not believe that the midwives sinned when they lied to Pharaoh about the Hebrew babies. Joshua and Gideon and Tamar all used deception and I do not believe they were sinning when they did so. And in the same train of thought, I do believe that Jesus knew he was going to go to the feast and the he misled his brothers for a righteous purpose.Then I would advise that you not use the word Jesus and deceive in the same sentence?There is only one deceiver and it is not Jesus. Is all deception evil and wrong? was God wrong to use deception in the battle that Gideon fought?God is never wrong, never. But then again His motive is always Love.Ours, not so much. so then, not all deception is wrong or evil.God is never wrong, He is never deceptive, nor can He be evil.Us on the other hand..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDavis Posted July 16, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,740 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 183 Days Won: 7 Joined: 07/02/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1964 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 I am not trying to sow discontent, I am trying to put together evidence that not all lies or deceptions are sins. I have seen it put forth as Righteous vs Evil deception. That not unlike killing, God does not view them all the same. I do not believe that Rahab sinned when she lied about the spies. I do not believe that the midwives sinned when they lied to Pharaoh about the Hebrew babies. Joshua and Gideon and Tamar all used deception and I do not believe they were sinning when they did so. And in the same train of thought, I do believe that Jesus knew he was going to go to the feast and the he misled his brothers for a righteous purpose. Then I would advise that you not use the word Jesus and deceive in the same sentence? There is only one deceiver and it is not Jesus. Is all deception evil and wrong? was God wrong to use deception in the battle that Gideon fought? God is never wrong, never. But then again His motive is always Love. Ours, not so much. so then, not all deception is wrong or evil. God is never wrong, He is never deceptive, nor can He be evil. Us on the other hand..... but God can tell people to be deceptive, as he did with Gideon and with Joshua, just to use two examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 http://biblecommenter.com/john/7-8.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 17, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted July 17, 2013 but God can tell people to be deceptive, as he did with Gideon and with Joshua, just to use two examples. Actually God can do exactly as He pleases, including destroying creation as we know it. But He will do it all to our good, the bible is very specific about that. He is the Potter and we the clay. What is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDavis Posted July 17, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,740 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 183 Days Won: 7 Joined: 07/02/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1964 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 but God can tell people to be deceptive, as he did with Gideon and with Joshua, just to use two examples. Actually God can do exactly as He pleases, including destroying creation as we know it. But He will do it all to our good, the bible is very specific about that. He is the Potter and we the clay. What is your point? my point is that not all deception is evil or wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 17, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted July 17, 2013 but God can tell people to be deceptive, as he did with Gideon and with Joshua, just to use two examples. Actually God can do exactly as He pleases, including destroying creation as we know it. But He will do it all to our good, the bible is very specific about that. He is the Potter and we the clay. What is your point? my point is that not all deception is evil or wrong Can you give me an example that you would perhaps use in a real life situation? I can think of many with short term results, and some spectacular deceptions that won wars. The allies built an entire fake army, tanks, trucks, planes, etc, to fool Hitler. They built entire "cities" of light, closely mimicking the shape of British cities so that the Germans bombed empty fields at night. So your statement, while it has merit, needs elucidation on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDavis Posted July 17, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,740 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 183 Days Won: 7 Joined: 07/02/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1964 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 but God can tell people to be deceptive, as he did with Gideon and with Joshua, just to use two examples. Actually God can do exactly as He pleases, including destroying creation as we know it. But He will do it all to our good, the bible is very specific about that. He is the Potter and we the clay. What is your point? my point is that not all deception is evil or wrong Can you give me an example that you would perhaps use in a real life situation? I can think of many with short term results, and some spectacular deceptions that won wars. The allies built an entire fake army, tanks, trucks, planes, etc, to fool Hitler. They built entire "cities" of light, closely mimicking the shape of British cities so that the Germans bombed empty fields at night. So your statement, while it has merit, needs elucidation on your part. Those are some very good example. The story of Anne Frank comes to mind as well. they used deceptions and lies to stay hidden for years. To some this was a sin. I just don't see it that way. I have a friend who is a DEA agent. While he no longer does undercover work, he did for a while. To some this very work was sinful as it by its very nature included lies and deceptions. I just don't see it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandalf Posted July 17, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 377 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2013 but God can tell people to be deceptive, as he did with Gideon and with Joshua, just to use two examples. Actually God can do exactly as He pleases, including destroying creation as we know it. But He will do it all to our good, the bible is very specific about that. He is the Potter and we the clay. What is your point? my point is that not all deception is evil or wrong Can you give me an example that you would perhaps use in a real life situation? I can think of many with short term results, and some spectacular deceptions that won wars. The allies built an entire fake army, tanks, trucks, planes, etc, to fool Hitler. They built entire "cities" of light, closely mimicking the shape of British cities so that the Germans bombed empty fields at night. So your statement, while it has merit, needs elucidation on your part. Those are some very good example. The story of Anne Frank comes to mind as well. they used deceptions and lies to stay hidden for years. To some this was a sin. I just don't see it that way. I have a friend who is a DEA agent. While he no longer does undercover work, he did for a while. To some this very work was sinful as it by its very nature included lies and deceptions. I just don't see it that way. Christians who have jobs that necessitate lies and deception need to change their work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDavis Posted July 17, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,740 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 183 Days Won: 7 Joined: 07/02/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/02/1964 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 but God can tell people to be deceptive, as he did with Gideon and with Joshua, just to use two examples. Actually God can do exactly as He pleases, including destroying creation as we know it. But He will do it all to our good, the bible is very specific about that. He is the Potter and we the clay. What is your point? my point is that not all deception is evil or wrong Can you give me an example that you would perhaps use in a real life situation? I can think of many with short term results, and some spectacular deceptions that won wars. The allies built an entire fake army, tanks, trucks, planes, etc, to fool Hitler. They built entire "cities" of light, closely mimicking the shape of British cities so that the Germans bombed empty fields at night. So your statement, while it has merit, needs elucidation on your part. Those are some very good example. The story of Anne Frank comes to mind as well. they used deceptions and lies to stay hidden for years. To some this was a sin. I just don't see it that way. I have a friend who is a DEA agent. While he no longer does undercover work, he did for a while. To some this very work was sinful as it by its very nature included lies and deceptions. I just don't see it that way. Christians who have jobs that necessitate lies and deception need to change their work! Thank you for your opinion. While I do not agree with it, I do appreciate alternative views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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