What kind of God would have used evolution over billions of years

[nebula]

Like I said, It's a theory. It's not even my theory...but for the sake of discussion, explain your thoughts?

 

What was the light?

Where did we all come from?

 

 

Are you suggesting there are things God cannot do?

 

What was the light?

I honestly have no clue what the light was that God created on the first day.

 

We know it was not the Sun because that was created later.

To claim that God was the light leaves the conclusion that from eternity past God was not light - so that doesn't make any sense.

 

So yes, the question of what that light was in the physical is a bit of a puzzle.

 

 

Where did we all come from?

That's a not exactly related to the conversation. You and I are discussing light, not the creation of humans.

 

 

Are you suggesting there are things God cannot do?

I am not suggesting anything. Just because someone questions what is presented does not mean they have an actual goal in mind. I am simply observing puzzle  pieces and failing to see how they fit. So, what are we missing? What are the pieces supposed to fit into? That is my goal, if anything. I have no conclusion on the matter so far.

[nebula]

On a side note...

 

God exists outside of time. He does not need anything from us to make things happen. We have no understanding of the ways of the Lord. The age of the Earth/Universe debate is a non issue. Time only means something if you want it to. To God, it is whatever he made it. He is the creator and exists outside of the creation.

 

He does not need billions of years, but if that's what He wanted then that's what you get. You get what God gives you, and if you are smart, you say 'thank you'.

 

No one is arguing what God can or cannot do. Please do not assume that either of us are making this kind of claim.

 

Please take the questions at face-value as questions, ok?

[Ninevite]

 

On a side note...

 

God exists outside of time. He does not need anything from us to make things happen. We have no understanding of the ways of the Lord. The age of the Earth/Universe debate is a non issue. Time only means something if you want it to. To God, it is whatever he made it. He is the creator and exists outside of the creation.

 

He does not need billions of years, but if that's what He wanted then that's what you get. You get what God gives you, and if you are smart, you say 'thank you'.

 

No one is arguing what God can or cannot do. Please do not assume that either of us are making this kind of claim.

 

Please take the questions at face-value as questions, ok?

 

 

Fair enough.

 

I did get the impression that you had answers you thought were more appropriate. I have no answers that I would consider difinitive, I was just presenting one theory. For the first three chapters of the Bible it would seem that God is the light as well as the last three chapters of Revelation.

 

However...

 

Another theory suggests that Lucifer had something to do with the light (possibly that he was the light). This is actually my personal favorite, but by no means is it scientific and I have no way of proving it.

[MarkNigro]

 

The Holy Bible is quite clear. God created everything in 6 days about 6,000 years ago.

 

Now some believe that God created everything but used the Big Bang and billions of years of evolution before people came on the scene.

 

But what kind of God would have used evolution over billions of years?

 

The Holy Bible is very clear that God did not use billions of years and evolution. So if God did use billions of years and evolution, He does appear to be deceitful. 

 

Also if evolution did occur over 1 billion years, just think of all the death, disease, and savagery that a multitude of animals suffered. None of this could be explained by the sin of Adam and Eve since they came much later. In fact God must have intended and enjoyed that.

 

Death, suffering, and disease of course must have been God's intent for the world and not the result of the sin of Adam and Eve.

 

So when the Holy Bible says:

 

Genesis 1:31

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

God must have thought that death, suffering, and disease were very good. Adam and Eve must have looked at Him and thought "are you kidding me"

 

No wonder they did not believe God in Genesis 3.

 

 

The God of the Holy Bible, the real God, the Creator did not use evolution or  billions of years.

 

The god of this world, Satan, invented the lie of evolution. That is the god who used evolution, as a lie.

What kind of God might use the Big Bang and evolution? An omnipotent and omniscient one might. The discerning reader might also note, as nebula pointed out, that 'evening' and 'morning' are not going to have an obvious meaning before the sun supposedly is created, and therefore might wonder about the historical factualness of the creation account in general. Perhaps the aim of it is spiritual and theological in nature rather than an attempt to lay out precisely how God created the universe.

 

The only god, that would have used evolution, is a deceiver and one that enjoys suffering and death.

 

The real God of course did not, The lying god just made up the story,

 

Revelation 12:9

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[Ninevite]

"The only god, that would have used evolution, is a deceiver and one that enjoys suffering and death"

 

This is actually sound theory. Jesus himself said Adam was the beginning, so the earth can be no older than that. In order to figure out when that was we have to make some assumptions, but I would never say anything that contradicted Jesus. Anything that contradicts Jesus can safely be thrown out.

 

From Jesus we learn that Adam commited the first sin and that nothing before that died. If your theory contradicts Jesus, you need a new theory that is line with what Jesus said. He is the Lord and he would not lie to us.

 

In this, for now, I have to agree with the young earth hypothesis.

[JDavis]

 

Like I said, It's a theory. It's not even my theory...but for the sake of discussion, explain your thoughts?

 

What was the light?

Where did we all come from?

 

 

Are you suggesting there are things God cannot do?

 

What was the light?

I honestly have no clue what the light was that God created on the first day.

 

We know it was not the Sun because that was created later.

To claim that God was the light leaves the conclusion that from eternity past God was not light - so that doesn't make any sense.

 

So yes, the question of what that light was in the physical is a bit of a puzzle.

 

 

 

 

maybe not.  There is a school of thought that puts forth that the sun and stars were created the first day, that is where the light came from.  The wording in the original language may not imply an original creative act on "day" 4, but instead "were made to appear".   The actions of "day" 3 would have allowed the sun to shine on the earth directly for the first time.

 

It is not the easy to translate ancient Hebrew into modern English.   Another example of where this is a problem is in Gen 2:19.

 

The KJV and others translate it this way...

¹⁹ And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

 

while the ESV and others translate it this way...

¹⁹ Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.

 

Now, I think that most of us do not think that the birds and animals were formed right then (since the birds were a "day" earlier) so the "had formed" makes sense to us.   

 

The point being that things are not always a clear cut as we like to make them out to be. 

 

I just started reading a book the compares the age of the earth debate among Christians to the debate between the "fixed earthers" and the "moving earthers".  He makes some very compelling comparisons

[JDavis]

"The only god, that would have used evolution, is a deceiver and one that enjoys suffering and death"

 

This is actually sound theory. Jesus himself said Adam was the beginning, so the earth can be no older than that. In order to figure out when that was we have to make some assumptions, but I would never say anything that contradicted Jesus. Anything that contradicts Jesus can safely be thrown out.

 

From Jesus we learn that Adam commited the first sin and that nothing before that died. If your theory contradicts Jesus, you need a new theory that is line with what Jesus said. He is the Lord and he would not lie to us.

 

In this, for now, I have to agree with the young earth hypothesis.

In what passages did Jesus speak these things of Adam?

[nebula]

 

What was the light?

I honestly have no clue what the light was that God created on the first day.

 

We know it was not the Sun because that was created later.

To claim that God was the light leaves the conclusion that from eternity past God was not light - so that doesn't make any sense.

 

So yes, the question of what that light was in the physical is a bit of a puzzle.

 

 

maybe not.  There is a school of thought that puts forth that the sun and stars were created the first day, that is where the light came from.  The wording in the original language may not imply an original creative act on "day" 4, but instead "were made to appear".   The actions of "day" 3 would have allowed the sun to shine on the earth directly for the first time.

 

It is not the easy to translate ancient Hebrew into modern English.   Another example of where this is a problem is in Gen 2:19.

 

The KJV and others translate it this way...

¹⁹ And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

 

while the ESV and others translate it this way...

¹⁹ Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.

 

Now, I think that most of us do not think that the birds and animals were formed right then (since the birds were a "day" earlier) so the "had formed" makes sense to us.   

 

The point being that things are not always a clear cut as we like to make them out to be. 

 

I just started reading a book the compares the age of the earth debate among Christians to the debate between the "fixed earthers" and the "moving earthers".  He makes some very compelling comparisons

 

 

Thank-you, JD.

 

Definitely something to put into the "consideration box".

[JDavis]

Sickness, death and disease were not engineered into creation by God.  God created a world free of those things.  The physical decay, disease and death we see is how sin works itself out in the natural world.  These things are the symptom of sin-sickness that ravages our planet.  The problem is that you can't see sin under a microscope and too many assume that this natural world is all that exists.  So they are forced to arrive at a natural explaination for the decay that is present in the natural world.

 

To understand what the world was like before Adam sinned, we can get a good idea of the pre-fall conditions of the natural world by looking at what life will be like AFTER sin is finally eradicated in Revelation 21 and 22.  After sin is eradicated there will be no more tears, no more pain, no more death, no more sickness.

 

All of the death and decay that many feel is part of evolution and in some cases, part of God plan of creation, doesn't exist in a world free of sin and thus would not have been part of God's means of creation and thus not part of our world prior to the sin of Adam.  

 

The death of Jesus' on the cross is meant to stand as God's judgment on sin and death and our redemption includes the eventual eradication of physical death, so how could God have used in His creative process what He hates.  Why would he engineer death into our lives and then send in His Son to redeem us from it?  It makes no sense.  It has God working against Himself.

 

 

Is there any mention of animals in Rev 21 and 22?

[Ninevite]

 

"The only god, that would have used evolution, is a deceiver and one that enjoys suffering and death"

 

This is actually sound theory. Jesus himself said Adam was the beginning, so the earth can be no older than that. In order to figure out when that was we have to make some assumptions, but I would never say anything that contradicted Jesus. Anything that contradicts Jesus can safely be thrown out.

 

From Jesus we learn that Adam commited the first sin and that nothing before that died. If your theory contradicts Jesus, you need a new theory that is line with what Jesus said. He is the Lord and he would not lie to us.

 

In this, for now, I have to agree with the young earth hypothesis.

In what passages did Jesus speak these things of Adam?

 

 

Matt 19:4 and Mark 10:6...

 

While Jesus does not mention them by name, it would be silly to assume he was refering to anyone else. Where else might we read about the beginning? Jesus quotes Genesis 25 times! I'm pretty sure he believed it was an important book and I dare not go against Jesus.

 

Besides that, He was directly refering to Adam marrying Eve. He was talking about men and women being created fully formed and not evolved from lower lifeforms.