thereselittleflower Posted August 27, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2015 Are not any works we do ( as sanctified believers ) God's work, and not our own?Well they are our own because we do them, but they are not ours alone. Good works, works of charity are done in God's power. Done in our own power they are nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 27, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Is our faith not a "work" ? Is our co-operation with the grace of God on whom we are totally dependent not a "work" ? It is. There is no salvation without our response to God's grace. Edited August 27, 2015 by thereselittleflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted August 27, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.68 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2015 My question is "who's works" are they?Did your works save you, or were you saved to do His work? The scripture say Faith without works cannot save us. James speaks of these good works, works of charity, done in and through the power of God.Faith and works of charity, good works, are two sides of the same coin. Without these good works, these works of charity, our faith is dead.A dead faith cannot save. James, in ch 2 is speaking of the royal law, the law of love (not the law of the old covenant which keeping for salvation Paul condemns). 8If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. And then he goes on to say: Faith Without Works Is Dead14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what goodb is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. A dead faith cannot save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus alone. Works are the result of salvation, not the means by which it is obtained. Good works are not done in concert with faith to attain salvation. Eph. 2:8-10 states the proper relationship of works to salvation. We are saved by grace through faith apart from works (so that none of can take credit). This is done so that we can do the works God foreordained that we would do.Salvation is Jesus + 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin hood Posted August 27, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 106 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/13/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2015 Jesus says : "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven." Is this "DOING the will of the Father" not a work ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted August 27, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thanks Shiloh, that has always been my understanding, and why I phrased the question as I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Jesus says : "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven." Is this "DOING the will of the Father" not a work ? We know who is truly a follower of Jesus if they are doing the will of the Father. That's all Jesus is saying. The Christian life is not absent of works. Only salvation is absent of works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted August 27, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Thank you for your understanding of salvation through works, Robin Hood and thereselittleflower. I see it somewhat differently, but appreciate your time. Edited August 27, 2015 by AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Faith and repentance are not "works." I think that should be made clear. Faith is our response to God. Repentance is a change of mind that leads to a changed life. No example of repentance can be offered in Scripture where someone didn't have a change of mind that led to a change in how they lived.When the Bible talks about works, it is talking about good deeds, especially deeds of piety that are done to earn merit toward God. Too many people think salvation is for good people who do good deeds that those good deeds earn them merit before God. Heaven, then, is something they deserve on the basis of their moral, personal goodness.Salvation has NOTHING to do with works in terms of how salvation obtained. None of us can do good works that are ultimately pleasing to God because our best deeds on our best days are stained with sin. Nothing we do can ever be perfect enough to allow us to earn or deserve salvation.Salvation, according to Rom. 6:23 is a free gift of God through Jesus. You can't earn a gift. A gift is given solely at the discretion of the gift-giver. You can't earn or deserve salvation through any effort at moral piety. There is no combination of works and faith that allow us to earn salvation. Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone and this is only because God graciously offers it to us. The only "works" necessary for salvation were done by Jesus on the cross. We are justified freely by grace solely on the basis of Jesus' righteousness and His finished work on the cross. We are saved on that basis or not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin hood Posted August 27, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 106 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/13/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2015 St. Paul wrote : " God will render to every man according to his works. To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life . " Is this not saying that eternal life , in the order of grace , not in the order of the Law , is dependent on good works ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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