borntorebel Posted November 24, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 127 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/02/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 _man says, According to you, "For ever and ever" is a defined period of time, because the Greek word Aion indicates a specific period of time. Now, this could be true if there were only one Aion there (Very slim chance, but it could be true). But there is not one, there are two. So that must mean that the indication is that the torment lasts for ever and ever - a non-specific period of time. In fact, the indication is exactly as I and others here have contended: The torment suffered by the false prophet and the beast is eternal. The Greek phrase translated into "for ever and ever" is "aionios tou aionios" (I believe that's the exact spelling, I'm not looking at my papers, and my memory isn't always perfect ). This is properly translated "ages of the ages" or "eons of the eons" (see my other post where I give an example compared to "holies of holies") It is plural of Aion, therefore can mean more than one. Look at all the times Aion and Aionios are translated in the NT. If you stick to the actual meaning, even though it's different words, they still fit. However if you change the meaning to eternity, some verses just don't make sense. As far as the "490" times of forgiveness thing, that doesn't involve definition of a word, but having spiritual understanding that Jesus is speaking of always forgiving. I am speaking of improperly interpreting a word to support a hbelief system. Super Jew gave me 2 websites where they translate Aionios as eternal or everlasting. I can say, just as you and others do onhere, that they are simply changing the meaning to support their belief system. They already were set in the false teahing that hades is eternal so they automatically give it that meaning, even though it clearly means age or ages. May God's grace, power and peace be with you, Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted November 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 923 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/03/1974 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Ron, I did not once mention that the sinners torment would be a slap on the wrist, so i'm just a little bit confused as to where you got that idea from. Let me clarify what i believe, If you are not saved by the blood of the lamb you will suffer eternally in hell, i believe that if you die without salvation you will never know the sure wonders of Heaven and the glories of our Heavenly Father. You are right though on one subject, God the father is more mightier than my humble mind can conceive. Your friend in Christ Jesus Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borntorebel Posted November 24, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 127 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/02/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 Anne says, Let me clarify what i believe, If you are not saved by the blood of the lamb you will suffer eternally in hell, i believe that if you die without salvation you will never know the sure wonders of Heaven and the glories of our Heavenly Father. The problem with this is that the Greek words Aion and Aionios don't mean "eternal" or any other word like it, and "hell" isn't in the bible (by it's current definition of a place where conscious people who sense what is happening go after death if they aren't followers of Christ). Some of the newer translations have changed the word, properly so, to hades. I made the "slap on the wrist statement" because I gathered that's what you meant when saying that sinners just go to hell for a little while and then are with God. Sorry that I misinterpreted what you were saying. I'm glad we can agree that God is far above anything we can think or imagine! :taped: May God's grace, power and peace be with you, Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted November 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 923 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/03/1974 Share Posted November 24, 2004 lol...............I knew we would agree on something someday Ron God bless you Your sister in Christ Jesus Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted November 24, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2004 Ron, God Bless you bro. As far as the "490" times of forgiveness thing, that doesn't involve definition of a word, but having spiritual understanding that Jesus is speaking of always forgiving. So what criteria do you use to seperate when to Spiritualize and when to define? I will tell you again to take a look at our Statement of Faith. We do believe in eternal seperation from God for those who deny Jesus. We have discussed this every knee will bend scripture before. Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Colossians Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Do you reject the scriptures I showed where God says all will bow before Christ and confess Him as Lord? Only those who think he is Lord will confess He is Lord. And that is set up while on earth, for "it is appointd once for man to live, and after that the judgement". Those to whom Christ says "be gone from me ye evil doers", are not under His Lordship. And they never can be, for they are not joined to Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borntorebel Posted November 25, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 127 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/02/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 Dr. Luke, Until you actually read and make an attempt to understand what I write, I have no reason to answer your questions. I've already answered them in my other posts. Every single time you or anyone else has presented a scripture to support your belief, I have gone to that scripture, read it, looked for what you're saying, looked at the Greek or Hebrew, looked at other reference books I have, and then stated my acceptance or refusal of what has been said. I can tell by yours, and others responses to my posts, that you don't even attempt to read or try and understand what I am saying. That's why I have no reason to repeatedly answer the same questions. May God's grace, power and peace be with you, Ron P.S. This doesn't apply to everyone. Some of the people on here, whether they agree or not, have at least shown they attempted to understand what I am saying, instead of just typing out some knee jerk response to a belief system they think they disprove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted November 25, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2004 *sigh* Once again my post goes ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted November 25, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2004 It is plural of Aion, therefore can mean more than one. Look at all the times Aion and Aionios are translated in the NT. If you stick to the actual meaning, even though it's different words, they still fit. However if you change the meaning to eternity, some verses just don't make sense. Whoa now, back it up bud. I seriously hope you didn't get that out of any commentary. aion is a noun and the stem word for aionios which is also an adjective. Both of them have seperate functions and interpretation within a sentence. They cannot be used interchangebly. I have proven to you time and time again the difference between these two words. It is absolutely basic. Can you at least point me to some commentary or lexicon that proves me wrong on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted November 25, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2004 Ron, God Bless you. That's why I have no reason to repeatedly answer the same questions. Good I will now close this thread. It should stand that you should have no reason then to continue to preach this false Doctrine on the Board either. May God Richly Bless you. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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