"And the earth gave forth" God made us by way of evolution.

[fromeasttowest]

 ---This passage is thought by many to be a second account of creation, 

 

I don't really think that man was a separate creation so to speak either. Though Genesis certainty does give us two angles of the creation story. I think chapter 1 is a broad overview of creation and it presents the creation of man and women as a single act. Then in Gen 2:4b-24 the author zooms in and presents us with the details of day 6.  The distinction of man and women are brought into sharp focus.  Chapters one and two are not chronological , -chapters 2:4b-24 simply present in greater detail some of what Gen 1 merely summarizes.    

 

 ---The word in this case does not have the article, I believe. The, indicating that it probably means time, which is how the Catholic bible translates it. Otherwise it would be a contradiction.---

New International Version
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

New Living Translation
This is the account of the creation of the heavens and the earth. When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

English Standard Version
These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

New American Standard Bible 
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

King James Bible
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
These are the records of the heavens and the earth, concerning their creation at the time that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. 

International Standard Version
These are the records of the universe at its creation. On the day that the LORD God made the earth and skies,

NET Bible
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created--when the LORD God made the earth and heavens. 

GOD'S WORD® Translation
This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when the LORD God made earth and heaven.

Jubilee Bible 2000
These are the origins of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens

King James 2000 Bible
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

American King James Version
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

American Standard Version
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.

Douay-Rheims Bible
These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth: 

Darby Bible Translation
These are the histories of the heavens and the earth, when they were created, in the day that Jehovah Elohim made earth and heavens,

English Revised Version
These are the generations of the heaven and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

Webster's Bible Translation
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

World English Bible
This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.

Young's Literal Translation
These are births of the heavens and of the earth in their being prepared, in the day of Jehovah God's making earth and heavens;

 

(I have the New American Standard Bible) The Keyword Study Bible

As you can see, lots of different translations, with a lot of them completely omitting the word day to avoid the confusion!, However the word day is indeed there.  Here's Gen 2:4 in Hebrew with the word yowm in red.

וַיְכַל אֱלֹהִים בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִי, מְלַאכְתּוֹ אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה; וַיִּשְׁבֹּת בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִי, מִכָּל-מְלַאכְתּוֹ אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה.

And it is the word yowm which can be literal or figurative.   So we see that it's using the yowm day in both chapters.    

Yowm, (strongs 3117)a day, a number of days, some time, year, life (when in the plural); today; in the daytime, on the same day; at present, now. A point in time and a sphere of time are both expressed by yowm. It is the period of light that is not darkness. It can be 24 hours, time in general, a specific point in time, or a year.  (Typed from my Hebrew lexicon)

Yowmam ( strongs3118) it means by day, day and night always. It occurs 51 times and specifies that an activity happened while it was still light. 

 

And fact that Moses (the author) did not use the yowmam is evidence to me at least of an open Biblical possibility that the universe was not created in 7 literal earth days. 

 

I

[fromeasttowest]

Good day,

I stay with my opinion concerning special creation of man.

 

 

 

 the "sons of God" because that phrase is used of demons (in Job)

I think there is no indication in Job or other scripture that the sons of God mentioned in Job were demons.

 

 "Sons of God" is a phrase for angels in general and since demons are fallen angels and satan was there then there's my an indication that other fallen angels were also there. lol (a lot of theres)  And that Sons of God means angels fallen or otherwise.

Job 1:6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them.

Man is special! We are the whole reason why he made the universe in the first place! Anyway good day, it was a good conversation.  

[fromeasttowest]

 

 

Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not?[I totally agree that God made me I am not saying that God didn't make me, He planned to make me before the Universe was here] or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?[i am definitely not accusing God of having no understanding, I am making the opposite argument I think "evolutionary creationism" speaks of a higher God, a way more awe inspiring God, truly an all knowing and all powerful God, than a God that would create things like poof there's a dog and poof there's a wolf]   

hum - when somebody speaks of "making", I personally think of different things than opening up a process that makes it.

 

If I undertand you right, you are telling us here that God would have had recourse to active creationism - you paraphrased it by a "poof" - only if he were less than all powerful. He would have chosen evolution otherwise, if I got the red highlighted phrase right.

 

So now consider you're wrong and he actually made dog and wolf through a poof as you would put it. In this scenario, aren't you making the same exact thing you are professing not to do, which is accusing God of proceeding in a powerless way? And I think this is what Joe was referring to...

 

Just my 2 cents,

Thomas

 

Yes, assuming I am wrong and assuming that God created things instantly like poof even when it clearly says the "earth gave forth"  then you are right I would be accusing God of going about in a powerless way. The "poof" God seems like a very primitive God to me. I believe God is way smarter than that. lol

Here's the hebrew word for "make" and what it encompasses. I should have said this a long time ago sorry. Taken from "let us make man in our image"  

Make=Asah (strongs 6213) means to work, to labor, to toil, to make, to create, to construct, to build, to accomplish, to acquire, to earn, to procure, to prepare, to offer, to sacrifice, to appoint, to constituent, to keep, to fulfill, to be made of, to be done, to be created, to be prepared, to happen, to be, to handle, to squeeze. The basic meaning of asah is do or make in a general sense. In Genesis bara (to create) and asah (to make) alternate. The word asah is used in scripture to describe God's creative activity. 

 

---hum - when somebody speaks of "making", I personally think of different things than opening up a process that makes it.---

If you intended to write a letter and invented the computer program Microsoft Word, then downloaded it on your computer, then opened it up and wrote a letter on it and printed it out, would you say that Microsoft word wrote/made the letter or you? You would say that you wrote the letter, that you thought it up, that you deserve the credit for the creation of the letter. And you would say that You just wrote it by the process of using the program.  The program didn't actually make it. The program didn't invent itself and type the letter itself. You invented the program and by the program you created something.   

Edited October 10, 2013 by fromeasttowest

[bestrfcplayer]

Welcome to Worthy friend!

In regards to the thread, you can be a Christian and believe in evolution, to defend the op. the two aren't mutually exclusive.

[thomas t]

 

Good day,

I stay with my opinion concerning special creation of man.

 

 

 

 the "sons of God" because that phrase is used of demons (in Job)

I think there is no indication in Job or other scripture that the sons of God mentioned in Job were demons.

 

 "Sons of God" is a phrase for angels in general and since demons are fallen angels and satan was there then there's my an indication that other fallen angels were also there. lol (a lot of theres)  And that Sons of God means angels fallen or otherwise.

Job 1:6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them.

Man is special! We are the whole reason why he made the universe in the first place! Anyway good day, it was a good conversation.  

from east to west,

please: I did not write the red passage. That was yours.

You offer no scripture to back up your assertions underlined. So I think, it is nothing else than pure speculation.

[thomas t]

Yes, assuming I am wrong and assuming that God created things instantly like poof even when it clearly says the "earth gave forth"  then you are right I would be accusing God of going about in a powerless way.

 

You mentioned dog and wolf when you wrote your poof thing.

Let's see if scripture always says "earth gave forth" (I can read it) when it comes to the creation of animals.

 

And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Gen 2:19

 

There it is: God formed every beast of the field.

[thomas t]

 

If you intended to write a letter and invented the computer program Microsoft Word, then downloaded it on your computer, then opened it up and wrote a letter on it and printed it out, would you say that Microsoft word wrote/made the letter or you? You would say that you wrote the letter, that you thought it up, that you deserve the credit for the creation of the letter. And you would say that You just wrote it by the process of using the program.  The program didn't actually make it. The program didn't invent itself and type the letter itself. You invented the program and by the program you created something.   

 

let me please add what just came to my mind:

making for you seems to encompass making up a process that makes it. Ok. But "forming" out of Gen 2:19 to me really doesn't sound like inventing a process that makes it.

You can form a piece of art with your hands, for instance. 

Greetings,

Thomas

[Guest]

"And the earth was formless, and void and darkness was over the surface of the deep"NASB The hebrew word for "formless" used here is "tohuw" which has no certain parallels in other languages so we must determine it's meaning entirely from Old Testament contexts.  

Isaiah 40:17 All the nations are as nothing [tohuw] before him, They are regarded by Him as less than nothing [tohuw] and meaningless[tohuw].

Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over empty space [tohuw] , and hangs the earth on nothing [tohuw].

This verse to me is describing unreality. And Job here is talking about outer space.

 

   

 

Like A Ball On An Invisible Sting

 

He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing. Job 26:7

 

Gravity With Centripetal Force Is Hard To Put One's Finger On

 

 

~

 

Earth

 

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Genesis 1:1-3

 

And God's Power

 

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7

 

And Despite Evidence To The Contrary

 

But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. Jeremiah 7:24

 

Man's Mind Was Not Created

 

Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart? Job 38:36

 

Full Of Nothing

 

Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. Isaiah 26:3

[Guest]

And fact that Moses (the author) did not use the yowmam is evidence to me at least of an open Biblical possibility that the universe was not created in 7 literal earth days. 

 

~

 

Possibly God Lied

 

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11

 

But I Don't Think So

 

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:3-4

[fromeasttowest]

Edited October 11, 2013 by fromeasttowest