Church membership

[Guest]

 

The church I was going to was always asking for money for something or other.

For perspective the local church often has expenses: utilities (lights, power for sound equipment, water, etc), rent (or mortgage depending on how the church is set up), general ministry costs (often times children's ministries provide snacks for kids, toys, teaching materials, daipers/wet wipes for babies, etc.), missions (local outreaches such as soup lines, food assistence, evangelism, etc and international missions such as supporting missionaries or short-term mission trips), and finally the wages of ministers (Teaching Pastor(s), Youth Minister, Music Minister, Children's Minister, Senior Adults Minister, etc.).

 

All these things cost money. If I participate or visit a local church I try to give something when I go... We pay money for entertainment (i.e. TV, Internet, etc.), we pay money for our living expenses (rent, utlities, food, etc)... Why are people so resistant to helping with church related expenses? Curious.

 

 

While those things are all true, GE, some of the sensitivity some feel about requests for money may have to do with the abuse of "giving" in certain circles in the past. I lived in several areas where tithing, etc. was badly, and I mean **badly** abused, by some so-called churches and "ministries." Such bad experiences tend to make folks more careful about giving and how much, though it can also be used as an excuse for not giving at all. (We fallen humans are great for excuses! ) I have met many who've been badly burned by some "prosperity" churches after the 2008 crash, and some of those folks are so angry at God (even though its not His fault) that it will take your breath away.

[Enoc]

 

I was a member of a large church for 7 years  Memberships was required to join any ministry.

As a member you were requested to attend a new members class.

The classes provided some foundation christian teaching, and church history. The church was 104 years old, and it was on its 4th Pastor.   Membership provided a greater level of communication with what the church was doing in the community, and around the world along with providing an avenue for getting connected and involved. 

 

Exactly Enoc.

In some local churches there is the idea that people want to make sure those in leadership are Believers (wouldn't want non-Beleivers leading a ministry in the church IMO) and in agreement with some basic doctrines...

 

 

 

All minstry leaders attended a three year decispleship program, and later attended a leadership program. Upon completion of the decispleship program,  you are asked if you would like to join a ministry or contiune on the path to become an ordain minister.

 

 

In decipleship you lean not to throw anyone into mistry without first evaluating and equipming them. 

[Guest shiloh357]

There is only one "church" referenced in Scripture; the body of Christ. You are either a part of it, or you are not. Having your name on an official member roll of a local church accomplishes nothing.

 

That isn't true.  The Bible contains letters written to numerous local churches.  Why would Paul be commissioned by God to start churches if they were unimportant or if being a part of them accomplishes nothing?

 

Most mission work around the world is supported by local and/or independent congregations.  Missionaries get their largest amout of support from either local churches or local and state denominational associations which are supported by local churches.  Few missionaries are supported by individual people, as most individuals don't have enough money on their own to pay for all of the expenses a missionary encounters.

 

Most local ministries that reach out to battered and abused women and children, pregnant teens, homeless and disabled people depend on support from area churches and without that support they would have to close their doors.

 

When you are part of a local church, you can use the gifts God has given you in concert with other believers in ways that you could never do on your own.  Your arms are longer, your tithes and offerings go further and you can make a bigger impact on the world for the Kingdom of God when you are plugged into a local church.  Your resources are joined with the resources of others and that means that greater things can be done for the Kingdom as a body than can be done as an individual.

 

Churches provide face-to-face accountability and fellowship/encouragement that no other medium of contact can match.  There is no substitute for having a circle of friends in your local church to be there in body and spirit when you are facing tough times to come alongside you and lift you up and support you. 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Its funny, it was at three months when my first pastor told me I was imagining any kind of similitude to be shown of Christ and the Church in Adam and Eve. He told me  I was highly imaginative and I got my first pause. Then when he asked me concerning what he had preached concerning Gorbechev being the Anti Christ (at that time) over a purple birthmark on his head, I disagreed with him, he felt I needed more his instruction.

 

LOL I knew (then) I was in the wrong place

 

Prov 14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.

 

Sometimes you have to pick who you allow yourself to sit under and yet finding one has been the most difficult (for me). I have one (I am partial to) on the internet that surpasses them all, as far as his being meticulous, careful and able to teach. I have preferred him above those under any structure when it come to giving him my full attention and careful consideration.

[BFP]

There is only one "church" referenced in Scripture; the body of Christ. You are either a part of it, or you are not. Having your name on an official member roll of a local church accomplishes nothing.

That isn't true.  The Bible contains letters written to numerous local churches.  Why would Paul be commissioned by God to start churches if they were unimportant or if being a part of them accomplishes nothing?

 

Most mission work around the world is supported by local and/or independent congregations.  Missionaries get their largest amout of support from either local churches or local and state denominational associations which are supported by local churches.  Few missionaries are supported by individual people, as most individuals don't have enough money on their own to pay for all of the expenses a missionary encounters.

 

Most local ministries that reach out to battered and abused women and children, pregnant teens, homeless and disabled people depend on support from area churches and without that support they would have to close their doors.

 

When you are part of a local church, you can use the gifts God has given you in concert with other believers in ways that you could never do on your own.  Your arms are longer, your tithes and offerings go further and you can make a bigger impact on the world for the Kingdom of God when you are plugged into a local church.  Your resources are joined with the resources of others and that means that greater things can be done for the Kingdom as a body than can be done as an individual.

 

Churches provide face-to-face accountability and fellowship/encouragement that no other medium of contact can match.  There is no substitute for having a circle of friends in your local church to be there in body and spirit when you are facing tough times to come alongside you and lift you up and support you.

Shiloh, thanks for that post! As much as I am not really for tithing, I am going to look into what you have said here..it really does make sense...and I am going to look into it further

[Amplitudo]

 

There is only one "church" referenced in Scripture; the body of Christ. You are either a part of it, or you are not. Having your name on an official member roll of a local church accomplishes nothing.

 

That isn't true.  The Bible contains letters written to numerous local churches.  Why would Paul be commissioned by God to start churches if they were unimportant or if being a part of them accomplishes nothing?

 

Most mission work around the world is supported by local and/or independent congregations.  Missionaries get their largest amout of support from either local churches or local and state denominational associations which are supported by local churches.  Few missionaries are supported by individual people, as most individuals don't have enough money on their own to pay for all of the expenses a missionary encounters.

 

Most local ministries that reach out to battered and abused women and children, pregnant teens, homeless and disabled people depend on support from area churches and without that support they would have to close their doors.

 

When you are part of a local church, you can use the gifts God has given you in concert with other believers in ways that you could never do on your own.  Your arms are longer, your tithes and offerings go further and you can make a bigger impact on the world for the Kingdom of God when you are plugged into a local church.  Your resources are joined with the resources of others and that means that greater things can be done for the Kingdom as a body than can be done as an individual.

 

Churches provide face-to-face accountability and fellowship/encouragement that no other medium of contact can match.  There is no substitute for having a circle of friends in your local church to be there in body and spirit when you are facing tough times to come alongside you and lift you up and support you. 

 

 

For the purpose of discussion, please define your concept of "church" and then demonstrate it from Scripture through consistent exegesis.

 

Let us not deal in opinion, but rather stand confident on the solid rock of truth that is the Word of God. The argument you have made for "church" could be applied to any wordly religion, be it Islam, Judiasim, Catholicism, etc. I prefer to rest in Scripture, not what sounds plausible and reasonable to man.

[Guest shiloh357]

For the purpose of discussion, please define your concept of "church" and then demonstrate it from Scripture through consistent exegesis.

 

The Church is the body of Christ comprised of all genuine followers of Jesus Christ.   That body is comprised of local churches, which are comprised of a regenerate membership of like-minded, genuine followers of Jesus Christ.  That the Bible addresses both the general Body of Christ as well as individual congregations in the Epistles is self-evident and beyond dispute.

 

The argument you have made for "church" could be applied to any wordly religion, be it Islam, Judiasim, Catholicism, etc.

 

No, the argument I made can't be applied to any other worldly religion.  They do not possess the biblical congregational/relational model that the Church possesses either corporately or individually.

 

[Amplitudo]

 

For the purpose of discussion, please define your concept of "church" and then demonstrate it from Scripture through consistent exegesis.

 

The Church is the body of Christ comprised of all genuine followers of Jesus Christ.   That body is comprised of local churches, which are comprised of a regenerate membership of like-minded, genuine followers of Jesus Christ.  That the Bible addresses both the general Body of Christ as well as individual congregations in the Epistles is self-evident and beyond dispute.

 

The argument you have made for "church" could be applied to any wordly religion, be it Islam, Judiasim, Catholicism, etc.

 

No, the argument I made can't be applied to any other worldly religion.  They do not possess the biblical congregational/relational model that the Church possesses either corporately or individually.

 

 

The body of Christ is not composed of local churches, the body of Christ is composed of Christ's elect sheep. There are many goats within the church institution, to claim they are a part of the body of Christ simply because they are a member in good standing is a grievous error. Certainly, in many local churches can be found Christ's sheep, but the church needs the sheep, not the other way around. Do not be so heavy handed as to impose a post-reformation concept of a congregational church that has not only been impossible to maintain throughout most of history, but in most places in the world at this moment cannot be maintained due to persecution. Or are those dear believers who could not then, and cannot now, gather into organized churches second class citizens, outside the means of grace? Absolutely not. The body of Christ is people, not churches.

 

I'm still interested to see you prove from Scripture your assertion that "local church" supersedes the individual child of Christ.

[bfloydo]

 

 

There is only one "church" referenced in Scripture; the body of Christ. You are either a part of it, or you are not. Having your name on an official member roll of a local church accomplishes nothing.

 

That isn't true.  The Bible contains letters written to numerous local churches.  Why would Paul be commissioned by God to start churches if they were unimportant or if being a part of them accomplishes nothing?

 

Most mission work around the world is supported by local and/or independent congregations.  Missionaries get their largest amout of support from either local churches or local and state denominational associations which are supported by local churches.  Few missionaries are supported by individual people, as most individuals don't have enough money on their own to pay for all of the expenses a missionary encounters.

 

Most local ministries that reach out to battered and abused women and children, pregnant teens, homeless and disabled people depend on support from area churches and without that support they would have to close their doors.

 

When you are part of a local church, you can use the gifts God has given you in concert with other believers in ways that you could never do on your own.  Your arms are longer, your tithes and offerings go further and you can make a bigger impact on the world for the Kingdom of God when you are plugged into a local church.  Your resources are joined with the resources of others and that means that greater things can be done for the Kingdom as a body than can be done as an individual.

 

Churches provide face-to-face accountability and fellowship/encouragement that no other medium of contact can match.  There is no substitute for having a circle of friends in your local church to be there in body and spirit when you are facing tough times to come alongside you and lift you up and support you. 

 

 

For the purpose of discussion, please define your concept of "church" and then demonstrate it from Scripture through consistent exegesis.

 

Let us not deal in opinion, but rather stand confident on the solid rock of truth that is the Word of God. The argument you have made for "church" could be applied to any wordly religion, be it Islam, Judiasim, Catholicism, etc. I prefer to rest in Scripture, not what sounds plausible and reasonable to man.

 

  I figured I'd step in and let some cast some stones my way.

The physical church stands self-condemned from start(conflicts & disputes) to end, Revelation starts with seeking repentance from churches. One might as well slap and spit in the face of Jesus, if they entrust their heart, mind and soul to flesh, turning their back to the promise of the "Spirit of Truth"... Jesus said it was best he die, so we could receive it. He also said "not one stone will stand" referring to the church of his time. Which church did Jesus build or say to build? He didn't.

  The one you contend with says " churches provide face to face accountability>>> that no other medium of contact can match " Hogwash, come before God and repent in tears knowing nothing is hidden, not thoughts, words, actions, nor motives......... We are told "cursed is the man who puts his trust in flesh"- God  "the flesh profits nothing" - Jesus

 I fear I am speaking to the blind and deaf..... they cannot hear or see what is being said. I have never told anyone to do anything other than seek God's will and follow it alone.... seems like some are more interested in building on bricks, sticks, and stones, Shouldn't we build on the foundation God laid in our heart and soul? and this alone do I pray for all ... seek God's will for you, and this is business best conducted with just God and self alone.

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

For the purpose of discussion, please define your concept of "church" and then demonstrate it from Scripture through consistent exegesis.

 

The Church is the body of Christ comprised of all genuine followers of Jesus Christ.   That body is comprised of local churches, which are comprised of a regenerate membership of like-minded, genuine followers of Jesus Christ.  That the Bible addresses both the general Body of Christ as well as individual congregations in the Epistles is self-evident and beyond dispute.

 

The argument you have made for "church" could be applied to any wordly religion, be it Islam, Judiasim, Catholicism, etc.

 

No, the argument I made can't be applied to any other worldly religion.  They do not possess the biblical congregational/relational model that the Church possesses either corporately or individually.

 

 

The body of Christ is not composed of local churches, the body of Christ is composed of Christ's elect sheep. There are many goats within the church institution, to claim they are a part of the body of Christ simply because they are a member in good standing is a grievous error. Certainly, in many local churches can be found Christ's sheep, but the church needs the sheep, not the other way around. Do not be so heavy handed as to impose a post-reformation concept of a congregational church that has not only been impossible to maintain throughout most of history, but in most places in the world at this moment cannot be maintained due to persecution. Or are those dear believers who could not then, and cannot now, gather into organized churches second class citizens, outside the means of grace? Absolutely not. The body of Christ is people, not churches.

 

I'm still interested to see you prove from Scripture your assertion that "local church" supersedes the individual child of Christ.

 

 

Perhaps this idea of the defining what the concepts of "church" and "local church" would be good discussions for a new thread? Please feel free to start a new thread on the subject.