Guest shiloh357 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 When going to church feels like returning to the restaurant where you got food poisoning from, and that feeling doesn't go away, you can't keep telling the person that "getting back in the saddle" will eventually fix the problem. And if I were suggesting that you go back to the church you got hurt at all, I could see that. If you got food poisoning at a seafood restaraunt, does it mean that you never go out to eat again? It means you will probably never go back to the particular restauraunt you got the poisoning from. You might not go to seafood restauraunt again, but I doubt it would mean that you would quit ever going to another restauraunt. Do you think it is fair to simply lump all churches into the same basket? As if all churches are steeped in what you call "Churchianity?" I am trying really hear you, but it comes back to what appears to me as blaming everyone else for why you can't stand going to church. So far, the services make you puke, attributing past church experiences as analagous to getting food poisoning, and so on. It really comes off as no one can rise to some spiritual standard you have erected that must be met before you will darken the door of any church. I could be wrong, but that is what it feels like from where I am sitting. When Churchianity gets in the way of one's ability to connect with both God and the body of believers, you can't keep telling that person that their solution is to "steeple-chase" until they find one they can connect with, nor to suck-it-up and change your attitude and the problem will work itself out, nor will telling that person the solution is for you to be the solution give the person any confidence or idea on how in the world they can radically change anything. You might as well ask a shy person to attend a party full of strangers as the solution for them to make new friends. I agree, which is why nothing I said resmbles how you are characterizing my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 11, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 11, 2013 When going to church feels like returning to the restaurant where you got food poisoning from, and that feeling doesn't go away, you can't keep telling the person that "getting back in the saddle" will eventually fix the problem. And if I were suggesting that you go back to the church you got hurt at all, I could see that. If you got food poisoning at a seafood restaraunt, does it mean that you never go out to eat again? It means you will probably never go back to the particular restauraunt you got the poisoning from. You might not go to seafood restauraunt again, but I doubt it would mean that you would quit ever going to another restauraunt. Do you think it is fair to simply lump all churches into the same basket? As if all churches are steeped in what you call "Churchianity?" I am trying really hear you, but it comes back to what appears to me as blaming everyone else for why you can't stand going to church. So far, the services make you puke, attributing past church experiences as analagous to getting food poisoning, and so on. It really comes off as no one can rise to some spiritual standard you have erected that must be met before you will darken the door of any church. I could be wrong, but that is what it feels like from where I am sitting. Shiloh, feelings are what they are. Nor are they logical. Coming up with a perfect illustration is difficult; please don't logic out the illustration. If that sick feeling follows the person from church to church, can you not accept that there is something going on in the person's heart that needs to be ministered to without making this out to be a "blame" thing? When will you stop trying to convince someone that they are just wrong but accept that the person's feelings are valid and express a need that a change of attitude about "church" or church attendance or actually going to church again and again or anything like this won't address nor heal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 11, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Nebula there is so much truth to your posts, thank you! I have huge church anxiety...and I have come down on myself for it many times over the years. Even on the days that I actually do get there, I sweat, my heart beats crazy, I get dizzy and I want to run from it. The church I go to these days is an excellent church with an excellent pastor! There is nothing wrong there...but something in my past has poisoned my present...unfortunately I have not yet found the cure. And it has nothing to do with the music I listen to or any of that..! I have fed myself only good spiritual things for a LONG time, and Christians still scare the crap out of me! Jesus doesn't, and I have a wonderful relationship with Him. He truly does walk with me and talk with me...so much! But He seems to disappear as soon as I hit the church parking lot haha ((Hugs)) Can you find someone to pray with you about this? Someone who will seek the Lord on the root and such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFP Posted November 11, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 732 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 91 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/31/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/24/1969 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Nebula there is so much truth to your posts, thank you! I have huge church anxiety...and I have come down on myself for it many times over the years. Even on the days that I actually do get there, I sweat, my heart beats crazy, I get dizzy and I want to run from it. The church I go to these days is an excellent church with an excellent pastor! There is nothing wrong there...but something in my past has poisoned my present...unfortunately I have not yet found the cure. And it has nothing to do with the music I listen to or any of that..! I have fed myself only good spiritual things for a LONG time, and Christians still scare the crap out of me! Jesus doesn't, and I have a wonderful relationship with Him. He truly does walk with me and talk with me...so much! But He seems to disappear as soon as I hit the church parking lot haha ((Hugs)) Can you find someone to pray with you about this? Someone who will seek the Lord on the root and such? I do know the root...it was a combination of things...big things. It's the cure that evades me. Thanks for the hugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Well, that isn't necessarly true. There are plenty of people who use places like this as a sounding board to say what they could never say in a face-to-face encounter with a pastor or other Christians. There are sinners who come here to justify to us what they believe and how they live all of the time. One way of handling conviction is to lash out at it. What better place to do so than on a message board where you feel have a least a modicum of anonymity? Do you believe that about everyone who interacts on here who isn't a church member? No, I am thinking primarily of unbelievers who come here to justify their unbelief to us. They are convicted and a message board like ours is a considered a safe and relatively anonomous means of venting their frustrations at us. That's to be expected of nonbelievers. That's why they're restricted to the Outer Court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Shiloh, feelings are what they are. Nor are they logical. Coming up with a perfect illustration is difficult; please don't logic out the illustration. If that sick feeling follows the person from church to church, can you not accept that there is something going on in the person's heart that needs to be ministered to without making this out to be a "blame" thing? Part of ministry is trying to get a person to examine themselves. I am not necessarily trying to make this blame thing, but so far your posts are clearly critical of churches. I really am trying to understand what all of this is about, but it seems like you toggle back and forth between your angst with church programs and something else you have experienced that gives you a sick feeling when attending church. When will you stop trying to convince someone that they are just wrong but accept that the person's feelings are valid and express a need that a change of attitude about "church" or church attendance or actually going to church again and again or anything like this won't address nor heal ? What need is it that you feel your emotions are expressing? I guess that is where the disconnect is for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 11, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Nebula there is so much truth to your posts, thank you! I have huge church anxiety...and I have come down on myself for it many times over the years. Even on the days that I actually do get there, I sweat, my heart beats crazy, I get dizzy and I want to run from it. The church I go to these days is an excellent church with an excellent pastor! There is nothing wrong there...but something in my past has poisoned my present...unfortunately I have not yet found the cure. And it has nothing to do with the music I listen to or any of that..! I have fed myself only good spiritual things for a LONG time, and Christians still scare the crap out of me! Jesus doesn't, and I have a wonderful relationship with Him. He truly does walk with me and talk with me...so much! But He seems to disappear as soon as I hit the church parking lot haha ((Hugs)) Can you find someone to pray with you about this? Someone who will seek the Lord on the root and such? I do know the root...it was a combination of things...big things. It's the cure that evades me. Thanks for the hugs OK, well, prayers for the cure, then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 11, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Shiloh, feelings are what they are. Nor are they logical. Coming up with a perfect illustration is difficult; please don't logic out the illustration. If that sick feeling follows the person from church to church, can you not accept that there is something going on in the person's heart that needs to be ministered to without making this out to be a "blame" thing?Part of ministry is trying to get a person to examine themselves. I am not necessarily trying to make this blame thing, but so far your posts are clearly critical of churches. I really am trying to understand what all of this is about, but it seems like you toggle back and forth between your angst with church programs and something else you have experienced that gives you a sick feeling when attending church.I have examined myself - a lot.The toggle is because it is all blended together. What I have is not a 2-D structure, but a 3-D one with many sides to it, and all sides are connected together into the unified whole. When will you stop trying to convince someone that they are just wrong but accept that the person's feelings are valid and express a need that a change of attitude about "church" or church attendance or actually going to church again and again or anything like this won't address nor heal ?What need is it that you feel your emotions are expressing? I guess that is where the disconnect is for me.First to be understood, second to be accepted for where I'm at, third is for what I have been going through to not be treated like the spiritual equivalent of, "Take to aspirin and call me in the morning," and fourth but rather regard this as something you need to hear from the Spirit on and not conventional wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Shiloh, feelings are what they are. Nor are they logical. Coming up with a perfect illustration is difficult; please don't logic out the illustration. If that sick feeling follows the person from church to church, can you not accept that there is something going on in the person's heart that needs to be ministered to without making this out to be a "blame" thing? Part of ministry is trying to get a person to examine themselves. I am not necessarily trying to make this blame thing, but so far your posts are clearly critical of churches. I really am trying to understand what all of this is about, but it seems like you toggle back and forth between your angst with church programs and something else you have experienced that gives you a sick feeling when attending church. I have examined myself - a lot. The toggle is because it is all blended together. What I have is not a 2-D structure, but a 3-D one with many sides to it, and all sides are connected together into the unified whole. When will you stop trying to convince someone that they are just wrong but accept that the person's feelings are valid and express a need that a change of attitude about "church" or church attendance or actually going to church again and again or anything like this won't address nor heal ? What need is it that you feel your emotions are expressing? I guess that is where the disconnect is for me. First to be understood, second to be accepted for where I'm at, third is for what I have been going through to not be treated like the spiritual equivalent of, "Take to aspirin and call me in the morning," and fourth but rather regard this as something you need to hear from the Spirit on and not conventional wisdom. Well to be honest Neb, "being understood" cuts both ways. So far, all you have done is react to what I have been saying and you keep oversimplifying much of what I said down to "take two aspirins and all me in the morning" as if my responses to you are indifferent and aloof. My responses have been grossly mischaracterized because you choose to react on purely emotional grounds. I have no problem accepting you where you are at, and I am not trying to fix your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 11, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I have no problem accepting you where you are at, and I am not trying to fix your situation. Then why have all your response been - This is why you are wrong, this is the perspective you need to change, this is the attitude you need to change, you can't keep running away, .... I never asked you or anyone else for advice, yet that is all I've been getting. Seriously, if you wanted to share something you have been or are going through because you want people to understand, and the responses you were given back were a whole lot of advice, you wouldn't have much of a receiving spirit either. No one does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts