JewishHeart Posted December 3, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/24/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2004 In Hebrew an agada is a legend. The oral Torah is full of them. From Rebecca being only three years old when she met Isaac, to the two stones of Jacob's ladder becoming one. Many Jewish scholars see agadot as "it could've happened this way." While many ultra-orthodox see it as undeniable as scripture. Let us now explore Judaism's most believed agada... the miracle of the oil at Hannukah. While personally I believe in miracles for today, I also believe in truth. As a messianic teaching the christian world about Jewish Roots, the Hannukah miracle is one of the most convenient messages to convey. How I wish it were true! To the readers who may see this as an attack... take some time and read the book of Macabees (the original story). Try to find the miracle of Hannukah. It is not there! It is not even hinted at! While it is there that they celebrated the feast of Tabernacles late, it is not there that there was no oil. My wife did a deeper study to find how the miracle story came about. After loosing the Bar Kochkva and other revolts while these started inspired by the Macabees victory just a century before... the rabis came up with a plan. They knew they were risking the existence of many Jewish people if they were to loose another revolt. What was the plan? Change the theme of Hannukah. Change it from righteous revolt to a miracle story. Thus the agada of Hannukah of the oil came about. Truly G-d wants us to learn to stand for righteousness during this season, and it will not be blotted out or watered down by a lie believed for centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahsway Posted December 3, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1959 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Hello Jewisheart, I guess you could say the same about Christmas. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 In Hebrew an agada is a legend. The oral Torah is full of them. From Rebecca being only three years old when she met Isaac, to the two stones of Jacob's ladder becoming one. Many Jewish scholars see agadot as "it could've happened this way." While many ultra-orthodox see it as undeniable as scripture. Let us now explore Judaism's most believed agada... the miracle of the oil at Hannukah. Â While personally I believe in miracles for today, I also believe in truth. As a messianic teaching the christian world about Jewish Roots, the Hannukah miracle is one of the most convenient messages to convey. How I wish it were true! Â To the readers who may see this as an attack... take some time and read the book of Macabees (the original story). Try to find the miracle of Hannukah. It is not there! It is not even hinted at! While it is there that they celebrated the feast of Tabernacles late, it is not there that there was no oil. Â My wife did a deeper study to find how the miracle story came about. After loosing the Bar Kochkva and other revolts while these started inspired by the Macabees victory just a century before... the rabis came up with a plan. They knew they were risking the existence of many Jewish people if they were to loose another revolt. What was the plan? Change the theme of Hannukah. Change it from righteous revolt to a miracle story. Thus the agada of Hannukah of the oil came about. Truly G-d wants us to learn to stand for righteousness during this season, and it will not be blotted out or watered down by a lie believed for centuries. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would be interested in seeing the evidence for this. Are there any links you can provide? What are the names of the books/authorities that you are using to arrive that this conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 4, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2004 Well even if it is...so what? I mean, a lot of holidays we have are like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted December 4, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2004 Super Jew...Well even if it is...so what? I mean, a lot of holidays we have are like that The idea of perpetuating a myth as truth should be a good enough reason...especially as many good Christian folk are looking at their Jewish roots with renewed interest. Fortunately we don't need the festival of Hannukah to demonstrate that our G-d is an awesome G-d of miracles...and providing extra oil for a week is a small thing. I agree with Shiloh...it would be good to have some other resources...although I take the point that any indication of this is sadly lacking in Maccabees. There is much in the oral Torah that is instructive and throws light on many of the Biblical stories and personages...but there is a whole lot that is very misleading if it is taken as gospel ...so to speak. We should never be worried about searching for the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted December 4, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2004 How do you know? Many History records were destroyed when Israel was destroyed after Christ left, in i think 500 something A.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 5, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2004 70 AD Hey, all I know is Adam Sandler was able to make a really cool song out of Chanukah...so I'm not going to complain or challenge it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Hey Jewishheart, I would still be interested in seeing your research concerning the miracle of the menorah. Are you going to give something to support your allegation, or are we just forced to take your word for it? I just want some links or the names and page numbers of books that I can read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishHeart Posted December 5, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/24/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2004 Shiloh, My wife had the evidence from her college here in Israel. Her professor was a former orthodox who became traditional (like conservative in America) and has a degree in Oral Torah. She lost the information but is now scrambling to search for it. As soon as she finds it, I will give you the resources. In the meantime, I will try to look through google on the internet. Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Shiloh, Â My wife had the evidence from her college here in Israel. Her professor was a former orthodox who became traditional (like conservative in America) and has a degree in Oral Torah. She lost the information but is now scrambling to search for it. As soon as she finds it, I will give you the resources. In the meantime, I will try to look through google on the internet. Sean <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Excellent, thank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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