Can every Believer be rich/blessed/favored/speak-in-tongues/be healed?

[Guest]

Yes, Walla, if that were the case, which it will not be, but I would just start over again. Just as I am sure any real follower of Jesus would. Stuff is made to be enjoyed just as food is made to be eaten, but Jesus is the only real satisfaction.

 

I'll save some time here: What Shiloh said. He beat me to it.

[NeedYouLord]

Much much love to you,

 

In case you haven't noticed-I get real personal about everything...Like I'm walking in it...Don't ask me...I don't even understand all of the reasons why I do that yet...

 

but anyway...so ok...So one of the so-called "false teachings" is that no matter if I'm saved or not...I can still get wealthy just because there are universal laws of the universe...That's wonderful...Get to it!!! Just how much of that wealth do you think someone would give for the good of advancing The Kingdom of God? They are blind and depending on their own selves...Satisfying their own lusts, needs and wants...The only problem is: It doesn't work for me...

 

But, then if I did that, I would have, to not, believe the part of The Bible that said to me: "God gives me The Power to get wealth"...which I do believe...only because it's in The Bible...(and it's ok that to you it means something else...because I know it will...as you will explain it to me...well the only problem is: I've listened to The Bible and I'm being brought from death to life...raised from the dead...and without God I have been completely without...things...

 

With God...I need a bigger home because He has multiplied my possessions...had to rent a warehouse...amazing...Huh...And because I own all these things...I can be a lender...and not a borrower...(I remember praying about that-that I knew I wasn't a lender and I wanted to be so bad-because when we are a borrower we are in bondage to the lender) or I can give every single bit of it away tomorrow-to a homeless shelter...or, if it was all gone in one split second...Would I still love Jesus...You Know I Would...For me there is no other alternative...Money or things did not save me and never will save me or give me Eternal Life With Him...Jesus My Lord...Wow...All I can say is The Freedom That Is In Christ Is Amazing!!!

 

I do not condone sin...I just want to point out again: that a lot is being assumed here...because I'm sure you weren't there...Assuming is a big mistake for those of us that want to follow and be like Jesus...I know what it looked like but that may not be the truth...I have forgiven...because I know the alternative to not forgiving...Have you? We are given 2 commandments...Love The Lord Our God With All Our Heart...and Our Neighbor As Ourself...

 

Shiloh...It may not matter to you that someone would just keep on and on about your so-called sin...Is that loving our neighbor as ourself? (Most that have participated in this thread has testified-I'm waiting on some of yours-to see a part of your tender heart...but I may have missed it...it's ok if you don't though...I won't be back on this thread anyway...and love you anyway...But The Truth Is We All Have Fallen Short...In my opinion...It's time to forgive (yes, even Benny Hinn and Ryan (Rodain) for believing the way he does-the boy is going to be a force to reckon with in the dark places) see I learned a long time ago...My acting as judge, jury and executioner didn't hurt that other person one bit...They didn't even know...Benny Hinn does not know you haven't forgiven him...and the only person you are hurting is yourself...We have to forgive to be forgiven...

 

There is something else missing in all this...God's Ways Are Higher Than Ours...and there has been no mention of God's Leading In A Matter...That By His Spirit He Can Lead us...I have experienced that leading...and still do...and if I sit on my "wealth" that only God has given...until He says to do something...I won't do anything...and then when He says: It's time to do this then that's what I will do...To you it looks like I'm just doing nothing...But No...I'm waiting...and that is something...

 

It hurts my heart that unforgiveness can exist to this level...And that a beautiful wonderful understanding, wisdom and revelation can be had for the asking...

 

There is not much of that going on except with a few of us...Many blessings...and I'm wiping the dust from my feet on this thread..."With God All Things Are Possible"...Much Love To You In HIm...Jesus Our Lord...

[Sevenseas]

but anyway...so ok...So one of the so-called "false teachings" is that no matter if I'm saved or not...I can still get wealthy just because there are universal laws of the universe...That's wonderful...Get to it!!! Just how much of that wealth do you think someone would give for the good of advancing The Kingdom of God? They are blind and depending on their own selves...Satisfying their own lusts, needs and wants...The only problem is: It doesn't work for me...

But, then if I did that, I would have, to not, believe the part of The Bible that said to me: "God gives me The Power to get wealth"...which I do believe...only because it's in The Bible...(and it's ok that to you it means something else...because I know it will...as you will explain it to me...well the only problem is: I've listened to The Bible and I'm being brought from death to life...raised from the dead...and without God I have been completely without...things...

 

 

May I ask why you would think that is wonderful?  Why is it so easy to ignore the fact that Christians in third world and even European countries are often poor and are in some case persecuted?

 

WHY is that?  Really, why is that fact ignored by WOF'ers?  Has anyone here said that Christians cannot be rich?  No...what we HAVE said, is that the Bible does NOT say ALL Christians can or

should be rich.  How is it that we should read your post and you seem to basically ignore any questions?  I know you have stated you are very busy and I don't want to argue with you at all,

but how is it that anything negative about WOF teaching is ignored and you just keep telling us that you are wealthy and that God has given you the wealth?

 

If He has, the use it wisely...but please, stop a moment and tell us how those laws apply to people outside the US?  Has God forgotten the rest of the world?  The name it and claim it gospel

is a US invention and it is an invention because it is not biblical.  

PLEASE supply the verse that you think tells you that God gives you the POWER  to get wealth.  Verse, verses, just please supply them.

 

And when you have done that, please supply the reason that Christians are persecuted in other countries for their faith and then please tell me why God hates them

and loves North Americans so much that He sent His only Son to die so that we might live in luxury.

 

I am not being sarcastic...I am serious.  I would like the answers, from you, re those questions.  Those questions are designed to make one think and I would like you to think about other

Christians who are living below the standard of poverty and who meet secretly because they would be murdered if they put on their Sunday best and went to church and claimed money.

 

It hurts to read this WOF nonsense!  

 

 

 

With God...I need a bigger home because He has multiplied my possessions...had to rent a warehouse...amazing...Huh...And because I own all these things...I can be a lender...and not a borrower...(I remember praying about that-that I knew I wasn't a lender and I wanted to be so bad-because when we are a borrower we are in bondage to the lender) or I can give every single bit of it away tomorrow-to a homeless shelter...or, if it was all gone in one split second...Would I still love Jesus...You Know I Would...For me there is no other alternative...Money or things did not save me and never will save me or give me Eternal Life With Him...Jesus My Lord...Wow...All I can say is The Freedom That Is In Christ Is Amazing!!!

 

Seriously?  a bigger home for all your goodies?  I don't know what to say.  That is the gospel to you?

 

Everything in the posts you have contributed to this op is only about ONE thing.  Money.  And, how much you believe God has given you.  Are at all interested in discussing anything else?  Yes, I read that your

hands feel better...and I can easily attribute that to God because He is merciful...but He is not a money dispensing machine.

 

Do you not realize that God deals with us as individuals and we do not all have exactly the same thing?  I'm at a loss as to how to understand you at this point even though I thought we had come to some

sort of understanding.  I do not doubt your sincerity in the least but I am having some trouble believing you understand what scripture actually does teach.

 

 

 

 do not condone sin...I just want to point out again: that a lot is being assumed here...because I'm sure you weren't there...Assuming is a big mistake for those of us that want to follow and be like Jesus...I know what it looked like but that may not be the truth...I have forgiven...because I know the alternative to not forgiving...Have you? We are given 2 commandments...Love The Lord Our God With All Our Heart...and Our Neighbor As Ourself.

 

 

The things you are writing about are not the fruit of the Holy Spirit.  There is no evidence of God's blessings or dealings with a person because they have physical ease...if that is so, then, God does indeed

hate and will not bless those who are poor and love Him or those who have disease and are not healed.

 

Regretfully, because it appears to me you were not quite honest when you responded to my other post, it is actually you who are assuming things.  Refuting grave erroneous teaching is not assumption.

 

You write with quite a bit of emotion, yet no scripture and every single thing I have posted in rebutting the WOF doctrine has been backed up with SCRIPTURE and all sources regarding false prophecy

etc, with links to the sites.  So again, I believe it is actually you who is assuming as you appear to think that you have all the goods...both literally and spiritually...yet another typical WOF teaching.

 

 

 

There is something else missing in all this...God's Ways Are Higher Than Ours...and there has been no mention of God's Leading In A Matter...That By His Spirit He Can Lead us...I have experienced that leading...and still do...and if I sit on my "wealth" that only God has given...until He says to do something...I won't do anything...and then when He says: It's time to do this then that's what I will do...To you it looks like I'm just doing nothing...But No...I'm waiting...and that is something...

 

This passage has nothing to do with excusing WOF doctrine. Let's have a look at it in context (that means lets not put a spin on it but see what it really means)

 

Seek the Lord while he may be found;

call on him while he is near.

7Let the wicked forsake their ways

and the unrighteous their thoughts.

Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,

and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

neither are your ways my ways,”declares the Lord.

9“As the heavens are higher than the earth,

so are my ways higher than your ways

and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10As the rain and the snow

come down from heaven,

and do not return to it

without watering the earth

and making it bud and flourish,

so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,

11so is my word that goes out from my mouth:

It will not return to me empty,

but will accomplish what I desire

and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

 

Let the wicked forsake their ways...seek the Lord while He may be found

 

Turn to the Lord and He will pardon freely!

 

BECAUSE

 

His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways.

 

Do you understand that?  God does not think like we do...one of the reasons we are told to RENEW our minds with SCRIPTURE

 

You are contorting the real meaning of the verse you quoted....you cannot do that with scripture.  

 

The Holy Spirit does not lead us APART from the Word.  That is one of the most dangerous teachings out there and it is not just WOF that teaches this.  I know people who follow

what they think is the Holy Spirit and all kinds of interesting things go on in their lives.  God tells them all kinds of things..only it is not God...it is a false spirit that they have accepted

as the Holy Spirit and this is far more common than many would like to believe.  They will not believe it if you try to point out the error, they will not accept ANY correction and they

will basically become more and more deceived as time passes.  That, is the basic nature of WOF teaching.

 

If it feels good it must be God.  If it sounds good it must be God.  If it happens it must be God.

 

Feelings are not an indicator of truth; the devil sounded good to Eve in the garden, and even God allows for false prophets to have their words come true if it suits Him...I believe the Bible

calls it deception.  God will actually send a strong deception when the truth is rejected.  Read it...it's in the Bible.

 

There is always something in the air...always something about to happen... and those who believe they are somehow special always just know there is something special.  

But we aren't sure what it is or when it will happen but by golly, it will and then the whole world will see it.  Yeah.  I've lived it too...I get it.

 

It is another typical indicator of deception sorry to say.

 

 

 

it hurts my heart that unforgiveness can exist to this level...And that a beautiful wonderful understanding, wisdom and revelation can be had for the asking...

 

Nah.  Nothing personal, but this has nothing to do with unforgiveness and nothing to do with beauty or God and certainly not revelation.

 

Personal revelation is given by seducing spirits who operate in such a way as to present the skin of the truth stuffed with a lie (as someone I once knew used to say)

 

It looks good, smells good, seems good...just like the fruit Eve partook of...but, when you bite into it, it will always eventually disappoint and hurt I'm sad to say. 

 

ALWAYS even though it may take 7 years or even a lifetime.  It is not good fruit.

[Sevenseas]

There is not much of that going on except with a few of us...Many blessings...and I'm wiping the dust from my feet on this thread..."With God All Things Are Possible"...Much Love To You In HIm...Jesus Our Lord...

 

Do you understand that you're 'wiping the dust from your feet' is a Biblical way of illustrating that the people that have had the gospel...the real one, not the one you are presenting,  preached

to them, have refused to accept?

 

So you are basically stating that you do not believe we are saved if we do not accept your beliefs.

 

 “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,^a drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

9“Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— 10no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

 

I forgive you though, because I really do not think you understand your own words.  Those words from scripture are meant for those who reject the gospel.

 

They are not meant for those who reject the prosperity gospel.

 

I'm not impressed.  I'm let down...I thought you had expressed yourself honestly to me, now, I see differently.

[Guest shiloh357]

but anyway...so ok...So one of the so-called "false teachings" is that no matter if I'm saved or not...I can still get wealthy just because there are universal laws of the universe...That's wonderful...Get to it!!! Just how much of that wealth do you think someone would give for the good of advancing The Kingdom of God?

 

 

Exactly none.  Prosperity teachers justify their lusts for wealth on the pretext that we need to be wealthy in order to advance the Kingdom of God, that it takes money to operate in the Kingdom.  But that is not true.

 

Jesus fed 15,000 people on five crackers and two sardines.   Jesus doesn't need my wealth to do anything.  Jesus doesn't need for me to be rich in order operate and advance His Kingdom.  I am allowed to participate by giving my thithes and offering.  I am allowed to participate in serving the Lord, but I am not the one advancing the Kingdom.   He is advancing the Kingdom and I am simply doing my part out of loving gratitude.  He uses me as I serve Him, but He is the one who gets the credit and the glory.   I am just privileged and humbled to be in His service.   I want nothing in return because serving the Lord is its own reward.  I don't need one red cent because I am not in it for the money.

 

But, then if I did that, I would have, to not, believe the part of The Bible that said to me: "God gives me The Power to get wealth"...which I do believe...only because it's in The Bible...(and it's ok that to you it means something else...because I know it will...as you will explain it to me...well the only problem is: I've listened to The Bible and I'm being brought from death to life...raised from the dead...and without God I have been completely without...things...

 

Yes, that's in the Bible, but it is speaking to a nation and it is conditional upon that nation remembering and fearing God. It is conditional upon their obedience to all of God's laws and commandments.   The problem is that prosperity preachers ignore the context and they ignore who the original audience was.   Prosperity teaching often has to be taught out of the Old Covenant.  That is where most of the prosperity passages come from.  They are ususaly embedded in a context that speaks to the consequences of Israel's obedience or disobedience. They are not promises that as a result of a covenant, they are prospered as a means of God's grace in their lives.

 

Prosperity teachings as two prongs:  On the one hand,  it is the result of having a Covenant with God.  This is false because God is not in covenant with man.   But the claim is that prosperity teaching is a divine right by virtue of this covenant and that making a demand upon God by virtue of this covenant, we can command blessings into our lives.    The second prong is the whole sowing and reaping concept wherein prosperity is the result of sowing money and reaping money as if money is seed that will grow into a harvest of money.  But the money has to be sown in "good ground"  That is prosperity teacher-speak for "send your money to me."  

 

I do not condone sin...I just want to point out again: that a lot is being assumed here...because I'm sure you weren't there...Assuming is a big mistake for those of us that want to follow and be like Jesus...I know what it looked like but that may not be the truth...I have forgiven...because I know the alternative to not forgiving...Have you? We are given 2 commandments...Love The Lord Our God With All Our Heart...and Our Neighbor As Ourself...

 

 

Shiloh...It may not matter to you that someone would just keep on and on about your so-called sin...Is that loving our neighbor as ourself? (Most that have participated in this thread has testified-I'm waiting on some of yours-to see a part of your tender heart...but I may have missed it...it's ok if you don't though...I won't be back on this thread anyway...and love you anyway...But The Truth Is We All Have Fallen Short...In my opinion...It's time to forgive (yes, even Benny Hinn and Ryan (Rodain) for believing the way he does-the boy is going to be a force to reckon with in the dark places) see I learned a long time ago...My acting as judge, jury and executioner didn't hurt that other person one bit...They didn't even know...Benny Hinn does not know you haven't forgiven him...and the only person you are hurting is yourself...We have to forgive to be forgiven...

 

It is not my place to forgive Benny Hinn becasue Benny Hinn hasn't wronged me.  The thing is that Benny  Hinn didn't repent.  And only when he had absolutely no choice, did he finally come out and admit that he had an inappropriate relationship with Paula White.  When the cover up no longer worked and the lies were exposed, he finally admitted to the affair.   That is not repentence. 

 

The ONLY person who is in a position to forgive Benny Hinn is his wife.  She is the one he sinned against.  She is the only one who has the right to forgive him.

 

In truth, the whole reason I brought up the fact of his affair is to expose how the Word of Faith movement is so brain-washed that they turn a blind eye when one of their own is caught in such an egregious sin.  It wasn't so much simply to trot out what Hinn had done, but to show the way the Word of Faith movement's desparate need to hide and cover up sin and if at all possible, ignore it and hope it goes away.

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

Actually Shiloh, you or anyone else can take offense to Benny Hinn's actions or inactions or perceived actions and cultivate unforgiveness in your heart.

 

I am with Kathy on this one, I too am done on this thread. Be blessed all.

[GoldenEagle]

Since I am the author of the OP I think the time has come to close this thread. It was an interesting discussion all.

God bless,

GE