TheCurseOfTheRodain

Did anyone point out that both Adam and Eve were not slowly created but created instantaneously to the fullness of maturity, being able to comprehend God and understand Him to the point that He would hold them responsible for their understanding? If God instantly created them to the fullness of maturity in God's own eyes, then why does anyone think that when He says He did the same with everything else (6 days to make everything) that He is lying? The Hebrew word used in Genesis for day is yom, which always means what we know as a day: daytime and nighttime; 24 hours. I believe that those who insist that God took a loooooooong time to make everything are trying to figure out how they themselves could have done it - they deny God's unlimited ability.

Hey GE, It is found in Psalm 115, verse 16: "The Heaven, even the heaves, are the Lord's: but the earth hath He given to the children of men." My point was that if we were to say that the Earth is the Lord's, then that would impugn Him saying that He gives license to Satan to do bad stuff with it. However, in light of Scripture, we see that the Earth belongs to us, not the Lord (though He owns it by right of Creation), since He said He has given it to us. Therefore, it is man who allows Satan to do the bad stuff (in light of the fact also that we as Believers have been given all power and authority over the Devil, therefore, we should not be allowing him to do anything, according to Luke 10).

Jesus of course, and His Word, and my college Bible cell group, then Joseph Prince, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Jerry Savelle, Keith Moore, Creflo Dollar, Rick Renner, Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts, John Hagee, George Pearsons, Jeremy Pearsons...

I would add one thing: the Psalms also say that the Heavens are the Lord's but the Earth He has given to the children of men. Therefore, by right of creation God does own everything, as His Word says, but in the same manner as you will one day let your child drive your car that you own, so God has given us the Earth (otherwise, we would have to say that God is letting Satan run the Earth and use His resources to do bad stuff).

Yes abortion should be called what it is: murder. It is murder because it is the killing of an innocent member of mankind, made in the image of God Himself. The state has a right and obligation to enforce laws. The people who commit murder should be tried as murderers, everyone involved with conspiring to do it and carry it out. The big problem is that the Devil has blinded people to the reality of what a baby is, trying to convince people that babies only exist "magically" once they leave the womb. And to that, we must ask, well, in the instant of time right before you qualify that they have left the womb what were they? The answer has to be of course, a baby. And the instant before that? A baby, and so on and so on and as we move the time table back to the beginning it is proven then that you always had a baby, in the same way that if you do that with a tree, you still have a tree when it's inside the seed.

The guy who produced the movie is an atheist, so it is not surprising what you end up with - every mention of God was dutifully avoided. Most of the time Hollywood comes out with junk about the Bible and then wonders why we don't want to go see it; if they came out with something that was actually from the Bible, directly and not changed, they would end up with success, like the Passion of the Christ. Imagine giving Courageous, or any of the Kendricks' Brothers movies big budgets - they'd get big results.

Not just that, but we would still be a British colony if the Founding Fathers did not correctly teach that the only war that God blesses is one where you are attacked first. That's why we did nothing against the British as far as shooting them until the Shot Heard 'Round the World on April 19th, 1775 in Lexington; now known as Patriots' Day.

Yes, you can defend yourself, always. Otherwise, why didn't Jesus let Himself be murdered countless times when they sought His life? Why didn't the disciples, either the 70 or the 12? Why didn't Paul? The phrase turn the other cheek also refers to accepting insults, and it only applies when you are preaching. See Ecclesiastes 3 also. The Devil would like it if you sat there and let yourself get beaten or killed, that's what he gets up for in the morning. As Patriot pointed out to, if you are in the marriage covenant, then you are under direct obligation to God to physically protect your wife to any cost (including the life of any fool trying to attack her), and conversely, you must destroy anyone trying to attack you, for otherwise you again violate your marriage covenant, for then you rob your wife of you. Same with your children. As always, plead the blood of Jesus, and trust in and declare God's promises of protection in Psalm 91, 103, 23 etc.

The Next Generation was the best series.

The ultimate issue is to pray God to send laborers into the political realm to re-take it for God. 97 of the Founding Fathers were active members of their churches, only 3 were not. All of the laws of this great nation that God has made are mostly from Deuteronomy, such as the right to confront your accuser in court or to take an oath. This was founded, always has been and always will be a CHRISTian nation. The Founding Fathers were Christians who dictated the policies and policy-making of this nation. Only recently (since about 1960 with respect to the most grievous, but back to about 1903 to get at the roots of the progressive socialistic movement) has the Devil been able to infiltrate the government and change the laws and get people to ignore the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. We need to get back in there and take the whole thing over at every level: Congress, Executive and Judicial, from the local to the federal level and rule this nation for Jesus, the Word of God. This also digresses into another discussion of how the Constitution and the Declaration are actually one document, linked as one, stated right in the Constitution itself (for those who think that the Constitution is not a Christian document).

That's a good answer. Paul said he didn't preach the Law was gone, but rather that he upheld it (because Jesus has fulfilled it for us).

Hey guys, the question then is where can someone who is not righteous end up? Because we are each a spirit with a soul (mind, will and emotions) that lives in a body. When we leave our bodies, we go somewhere. For the righteous, we go directly into Jesus' presence, for the unrighteous (this is before the Day of Judgment with the Lake of Fire prepared for the Devil and his demons) they would go to ......? There is a holding place they go to, where is it? I would list it as sheol, the grave, aka hell. If hell is not in sheol, or rather if sheol is not a part of hell, then where are they going? For anyone who has sinned and not received their forgiveness through Jesus' sacrifice, they are still spiritually dead (they are still alive, in that, just because they have sinned and are charged with being sinners and have died spiritually does not mean they cease to exist) and they have to go to the opposite of Heaven, because they cannot be where God is. So, again, just because they are spiritually dead does not mean they cease to exist, in the same way that Jesus becoming sin for us meant that He would have to die spiritually (as far as being a Man was concerned) and then go to where those who are spiritually dead have to go. That's what I am speaking of here. Yes, the sacrifice for our sins was carried out AT the cross, but it wasn't until Jesus resurrected out of hell on the 3rd day that God proved He had accepted His sacrifice, as the Scriptures say. That's why in Romans 10:9-10, if anyone wants to be saved, they have to believe that Jesus is the Lord and that God the Father raised Him from the dead on the 3rd day - it doesn't say beans about whether or not your sins have been forgiven, because by believing God raised Him from the dead, you understand His sacrifice was accepted and the penalties had all been paid in full forever.

Here are some off the top of my head (I would have to do more digging to get the rest): Matthew 12:40, Jesus said He would be in the heart of the Earth (hell) 3 days and 3 nights. Colossians 2:15 talks about the shew (yes, shew, which means an open proving, like a parade or actually a parade) Jesus made of those who chose with Satan. 1 Peter 3:18-19 Jesus suffered for our sins and went and preached to the spirits in prison (hell). Just logically, what is the penalty for sin? It is not just physical death, it is spiritual death (which is suffering). Jesus had to pay the suffering physically and spiritually. Otherwise He could not fulfill Isaiah 53:4-5. Part of the penalty for sin was going to hell. Someone in hell is not having a good time (they're suffering). The reason we get to go to Heaven is because Jesus took our place and went to hell on our behalf. We get what He deserves, whereas He took what we deserved. Please review this post. Nothing is unscriptural here.

Yeah, WHAT was Lucifer thinking? HOW did he possibly think he could defeat God at anything? And then the irony of God: here is Satan, thinking he's won it all, that because Jesus is the One God said He would send in Genesis and now He has just been sacrificed on the cross, and by all accounts, it looks like he's certainly the winner. BUT, as Satan comes to torment Jesus in Hell and he's watching him, suddenly Jesus comes back to life - the only man to ever escape Hell - and puts Satan and all his host into a parade and parades him defeated and spoiled in front of all the angels. And Satan is the one who slew Him! The whole time He was scourging Jesus, He was healing us with those stripes; and with killing Him, he defeated himself forever with no possibility of recovery. I mean, God is just awesome, and it is just hilarious if you stop to think about it for a minute or two. Praise God!

Jesus preached to those guys (Abraham, David, Moses, etc) when He was in the belly of the Earth (Hell) and they accepted Him as the Savior and are all there in Heaven now. What Jesus did on the cross was for the individual - in other words, no one can make the decision for you - it has to be YOU that decides to jump in and receive Jesus as Lord and Savior right now today. And since it is on an individual basis, everything He released at the cross for you (being redeemed from the curse of the Law (meaning everything in it that you can read in Deuteronomy 28:15-68) is for YOU personally to appropriate and walk in. The redemption from poverty, sickness, disease, etc has already been purchased, but like giving someone a car, until they take possession of it and start driving it around, they'll still be walking like everyone else...Sin, while entirely forgiven already for all mankind, has to be taken care of by the individual, through the reception of the forgiveness of sins that Jesus has done for you, which none of us could ever do. Because the only sin that is left that has a penalty from God is the rejection of what Jesus has done for you in forgiving all your sins. Don't leave up to God what He has left up to you - receive Jesus today and be reconciled to God. He's there waiting for you right now. But if you're trying to make it compute in your mind before you believe in Jesus you are wasting your time - Jesus is after your heart, and He's knocking on it right now, to invite you to know God personally today and come into fellowship and the Holy Trinity, being made One with Jesus. It is a wonderful, indescribable thing that I hope you'll take advantage of right now. What are you waiting for? Nothing's stopping you, come on

The KJV would be best probably, so long as you understand that everyplace you see the phrase "fear God" or something similar the word fear, selected by the Holy Spirit, used at the time God wrote the Bible, it is not meaning what we in the USA take it to mean today, as in "be afraid of God or be scared of God" - rather it means the greatly reverence, to greatly respect, to stand in awe of. What is the purpose of what you are writing? You say you are seeking God - would you like to enter into relationship with Him today and become spiritually alive, being reborn with Heaven as your future and no past?

The tithe was actually from the Garden of Eden, otherwise, Abel and Cain would not have been doing it (where else would they learn it?). Abraham also gave the tithe, how did he know to do this before it was part of the Law? It all ties into the Blessing of the Lord. If you look at Hebrews 4:2 where it says the Gospel was preached unto the Israelites (and the previous chapter was all about the promises of God that they had been legally given but failed to possess because of their evil hearts of unbelief (shocking that God uses that word to describe unbelief) and so they could not walk in the promises). It also says in Galatians 3:8 that the Gospel was preached unto Abraham also, saying that in him (his Seed; Jesus, Who made the new covenant and united us with Him in it) would all nations be blessed. This ties into Galatians 3:13-14 where it is written that any who believe have been redeemed from the curse of the Law and are now under the Blessing of Abraham (which is the Blessing of the Lord you see in Genesis 1:28, Genesis 13:2, Genesis 24:35 and In Genesis where Isaac had sowed into the land in famine when no one else was getting anything and he reaped a 100fold harvest, and it says the Lord blessed him, and elsewhere going forward). So now, being under the Blessing, you see Malachi 3:10-12 where it says that IF you give the tithe and bring it into His storehouse (His church), and put meat on His table THEN He shall put meat on YOUR table (all your needs supplied/your daily bread (the operating costs of what you declare for your household), and EMPTY OUT THE BLESSING on you, and keep the windows (or vaults) of Heaven open to you constantly, as well, He promises to rebuke the Devourer for your sake (the Devil) so that He can't corrupt or destroy the fruits of your ground (your seed sowing and the harvests they produce is protected) and your vine doesn't cast her fruit before the time in the field (things come to fruition for you) and all nations shall call YOU blessed, for you shall be a delightsome land. Hallelujah what a good God we serve Who has made the way for us! My wife and I have always tithed (12 years) and have always increased every year, and never have had to borrow any money nor had a bill be late or unpaid, but rather, because of our tithing we have seen these promises made manifest. Glory to God! Tithing is how God causes recession and depression to bypass you. The tithe is like an umbilical cord financially to God. And a tithe is not a tithe until it's 10 percent. Any other kind of giving starts after the tithe. The tithe is the first 10th of your income. It cannot be given as alms (this is one of the biggest disruptors - being moved by compassion and giving your tithe as alms; alms starts after 10%).

Actually Shiloh, you or anyone else can take offense to Benny Hinn's actions or inactions or perceived actions and cultivate unforgiveness in your heart. I am with Kathy on this one, I too am done on this thread. Be blessed all.

Finally, with respect to doctrine, I know what it is, my context was I do not follow and live or die by Word of Faith doctrine or Baptist doctrine or Methodist doctrine, etc, the POINT was that the only doctrine I accept and live by is the Bible Himself. *yes I said Himself on purpose*

Yes, Walla, if that were the case, which it will not be, but I would just start over again. Just as I am sure any real follower of Jesus would. Stuff is made to be enjoyed just as food is made to be eaten, but Jesus is the only real satisfaction.

I don't know where you got that I follow Benny Hinn (I do not defend any sin either by the way), that's something that 7seas has tried to say, but if you look at my posts, I never made that claim. And if I do sound like Kenneth I take that as a compliment. I follow the Bible, and if Copeland's teachings do not work or are not the Truth, then by definition I could not in the name of Jesus have received/done all these things. None of them bring glory to the devil, but they all bring glory to Jesus and the Father Who sent Him. And by definition if these things are not the Truth then they would not work, but as you can see from my testimony, they have worked. So, if you don't believe the works, I don't know what to tell you

7seas, you seem to be sincere in your zealous pursuit of the destruction of Word of Faith, but it is misdirected. I don't know what happened with you and someone who said they were Word of Faith, but clearly it has affected you. If any person follows a so-called doctrine, especially at the expense of the Word,he/she is not doing what Jesus said. He said "Follow Me." that is our command. That is what I do daily and nightly. I do not follow a doctrine. If I had one, it would be "Believe the Word, not man's experiences or opinions." So, to recap, I follow the Bible. What I learn from Word of Faith preachers I check in the Word and I apply it in my life and get results by the favor of God. The main thing is I am teachable. I told God at the beginning I wanted Him to lead me into all the Truth and that I would be always teachable for Him. Being teachable has opened the door for everything. If a preacher making a mistake is all it takes to disqualify everything they say, then I guess we should get rid of all the disciples that were present when Paul had to rebuke Peter for trampling on the finished work of the Cross that Jesus secured for us. That would be a lot of Scripture we'd have to get rid of, because these guys said and did a lot that was in contradiction to what Jesus did for us and God used Paul to set them straight. Yet, even so, look at all the miracles and things that were being done in spite of that. Notice they were not perfect, but yet, their words are Scripture and they got results and were teachable and received correction. They didn't pipe off at Paul and say who do you think you are?... Anyway, I am sure someone is getting something good out of this, as you have pointed out.

Hi Walla2009, I don't think you've been my reading my posts very carefully. In at least 2 of them I informed all that I was once HOMELESS. That means I didn't have A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G. When I fell in love with Jesus it took a little while before I got ANYTHING. When I grew up I actually had a lot, then my Jesus-less life of stupidity and sin I became homeless for a while. But God gave me places to stay until He got things fixed in my life and started bringing me up. I love Jesus more today than I ever have, and I have remembered the Lord my God as I have come into my Promised Land - things have not and will not change me, I stay focused on Jesus DAILY. This is why I posted my last post above my friend, because people are set on what they want to believe already in certain instances (like my encouraging others to walk in tongues, healing and prosperity), and they have a reason to talk themselves out of these things and this thread is nearly at 10 pages. For me, I believe I have qualified virtually everything if not everything. Some people are becoming upset, and going by Jesus' example, He didn't sit around spending all His time trying to convince to receive healing or anything else; the Pharisees wasted all their time talking themselves out of what Jesus was offering to follow Him, even though the Scriptures say the power of the Lord was present to heal THEM (wow! think about what God won't do for you if before the NC He was willing to do that for these evil-hearted jerks who hated Him and conspired to murder Him...). He said what God told Him to say and that is what I have done here (yes I can and do hear from God; some people seem to ignore where Jesus said His sheep hear His voice and other Scripture along the same line). So again, because I am trying to teach about prosperity does not mean that is my god - Heaven forbid; prosperity is one promise, there are many others, and I would encourage ALL Believers not to leave anything on the table (I would hate to get up there and find out I left anything in Heaven that I was entitled to or should have had here on the Earth after Jesus went through all that for me and the Father prepared it all for me, I would not like to face that moment - and I encourage all to think about that and bring the matter to the Father). I truly follow Jesus everyday and am IN love with Him and the Father. I have a very personal relationship with them and am very close to them. John 14 is probably my favorite chapter in the Bible. So lastly, just bring the issue of tongues, healing and prosperity to the Father - if what I have said is true you have much to gain, for your enjoyment and His glory, and if they are all lies (though NeedYouLord has already proved otherwise) then let Him tell you, but don't go by opinion or past experiences, but only the Holy Spirit and His Word. All of these things I have done that I have listed in this thread and received and walked in aren't because I am more special or better than anyone else, or because I have more faith than anyone, but because simply I have believed what He said and I haven't let anyone talk me out of it, not Believers, not the Devil, not myself. Anyone can have what He says following this. And when and if, as I have, you run into walls or things didn't go the way you thought they would, don't give up or get mad or become numb, but rather seek God and find out what you missed or what is wrong, and He'll tell you if you're serious. Be blessed!

And for all reading this, I see from people like Zion and 7seas that they seem to think that *I* think that prosperity is why I exist. Let me clear up any confusion: any Believer who mentions that prosperity is good and encourages all other Believers to take part in it is not forsaking Jesus or not focused on Jesus or has somehow been led astray into some errant doctrine. Anyone on the Earth enjoys properity. No one turns it down. It doesn't mean you are evil to enjoy the good things of this life here on the Earth (Paul did mention to Timothy that God gives us ALL THINGS richly to ENJOY...). I just want to reiterate that the mere acceptance of prosperity or praying it for others does not make you a false disciple of Jesus. It actually almost seems like the people don't want Christians going around pronouncing "Merry Christmas" upon others because they are "offended" by it; these people hold the view that wishing someone a Merry Christmas is evil, when in reality, there is not one evil thing about it. If you ask them what specifically they are offended by, they won't have any real answer... At any rate, I personally enjoy prosperity; I once was homeless and had nothing. I then was willing to listen to Jesus and saw Him, having 3 supernaturals encounters with God in 1 night, May 27th, 2001. I met the Holy Spirit, the Father and Jesus (and have been blessed spiritually to see Him more since). 2 days later (having been totally unchurched) I acted on the call to follow Him and committed my life to Him. I have never been the same since. 6 weeks later, I became interested in knowing what tongues was, and I had multiple Believers all try to tell me it was evil/of the Devil/not for today/divisive, etc, and when I asked them to prove it by the Word they could not, and so I did receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit; Jesus baptized me with fire and I spoke in tongues and have ever since. It was and is wonderful. Over the years I have tried to bring a deeper pursuit of Jesus personally to all God has brought into my path, and many have received Him as a result or grown significantly in the Lord (and continue to). One of these things was healing and I have healed a great many (Jesus' Spirit doing the works, not I), and I had many Believers try to talk me out of that as well, but I, as well as the people who HAD cancer/tumors of the brain/spinal cord/spinal disc destructions/torn ligaments/various chronic pains/blind eyes/rheumatoid arthritis SURE WERE GLAD I DIDN'T LISTEN TO THOSE WHO SAID WE CAN'T ALL HAVE THAT. And now that I know about prosperity, I won't let anyone talk me out of that either, and all the poor, poverty-stricken people and the ministries and those they reach for Jesus sure are glad I won't be talked out of it either. Anyway, for every part of the Truth, the Devil tries to erect fences around them, saying whatever possible to block Believers from accessing and walking in them, spoiling Believers with vain deceits and shallow philosophies, lying with no accountability and the ones who try to enforce all that stuff are typically the Believers themselves, who accept as fact what is taught by leaders or those they respect without doing the investigation into the Scriptures themselves like the Bereans and looking at the fruit of those who preach and taking the matter directly to God Himself to find out the Truth. That is a fitting way to conclude my part in this thread, because it is just going to be a merry-go-round no matter what I put forth. Be blessed.

Rodain can you tell us where your money rewards from "sowing" have come from ? Yes, so long as this is not for some mockery or desecration: the Lord has led me into my harvests and they have come in the form of selling things, or reselling things, new clients, new ideas that have resulted in monetary benefit, debt forgiveness, people just spontaneously (as the harvest at the direction of the Lord of course) GIVING me money (yes it is not just preachers who have had this happen) or things which are worth a particular amount of money. There may be more ways I have not thought of at this moment, but I hope that helps. The system of sowing and reaping both physically and spiritually will not cease until the Earth remaineth not (somewhere around Genesis 8). Oh.. I see. In that case, I can claim the same thing. Only I call it working for a living....God certainly sparks my creativity all the time. It's not a miracle. It is normal. People love my photos...my short stories using my dogs as the characters (children especially but even the adults enjoy it)...and my artwork. I appreciate the gifts God has given to me and I pray and seek God concerning these things regularly. However, that is not what those verses are even talking about. Let's have a look at those verses IN context...for the 2nd time in this thread. Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. 4Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, 5for each one should carry their own load.6Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor. 7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. The passage is actually referring to sin, not some sort of monetary gain. What you sow in your sinful flesh, you will reap. It's as plain as day. And, here is the rest of the chapter: See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand! 12Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh. 14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whicha the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—tob the Israel of God. 17From now on, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus. 18The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers and sisters. Amen. Now, even though circumcision is mentioned, the actual sin seems to be avoidance of the cross...and reading the first portion of Gal 6, it speaks of sin in general and the biblical injunction to AVOID sin or you will reap the consequences. NOWHERE is any sort of monetary gain or lost spoken of. The grace of God and the blessings of God are not performance based. Jesus tells the story of the prodigal son....did that young man who squandered his fortune have to make it up somehow to his father. No. We cannot make up our sin to God....we can only accept forgiveness of those sins through the blood of Christ. HOWEVER, we still may reap the consequences of our sins depending on the effects on our own bodies as well as the effects upon others. Verse 14 is in direct contrast to WOF doctrine. WOF doctrine wants it all NOW; while Paul writes he has been crucified to the world...with all its lusts, desires and false systems. Further, Paul does not want to boast about ANYTHING....except the cross of Christ. 14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whicha the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. The stark reality of the unbelievable contrast of this verse against WOF beliefs is one of the most striking in scripture. Really, there is no excuse for following after such false teachings. Of course, the Bible does explain it: For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. II Tim. 4:3 If that is what you want to think 7seas, I will not change your mind. We'll leave it at that. Further discussion after all that has been so far is pointless.