Why is a child's jewishness determined by his moth

[Gershom_young]

On 9/10/2003 at 5:26 AM, Guest shiloh357 said:

 

Not at all. Jewish people are very careful to have their children circumcized by a certifie Mohel. Since this is done in the presence of many withnesses, no one can claim they were circumcized ritually if they were not.

It's a good thing this wasn't required in the Old Testament, or Moses would have been killed. I can imagine the text in Exodus 4 - So Zipporah took a flint knife and circumcised her son, but because Zipporah was a woman and not a certified mohelet, and because there were no witnesses, the circumcision didn't count and Moses died for disobedience.

[Ozarkbound]

29 minutes ago, Gershom_young said:

It's a good thing this wasn't required in the Old Testament, or Moses would have been killed. I can imagine the text in Exodus 4 - So Zipporah took a flint knife and circumcised her son, but because Zipporah was a woman and not a certified mohelet, and because there were no witnesses, the circumcision didn't count and Moses died for disobedience.

It was required in the Old Testament. It started with Abraham.

[Gershom_young]

On 11/14/2020 at 1:25 AM, Ozarkbound said:

It was required in the Old Testament. It started with Abraham.

Circumcision, yes. But I don't think it mattered to anyone whether the mohel was certified, just that the circumcision was done.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Gershom_young

[Jedi4Yahweh]

On 4/18/2003 at 9:12 AM, angels4u said:

Why is a child's Jewishness determined by his mother?

 

According to Jewish law, a child is considered a Jew if his mother is a Jew, whether his father is Jewish or not. If the mother is not Jewish, the child is not Jewish even though the father may be Jewish

I think you mixing terminology of Jew and Israelite.  Not all of Israel are Jews.  The northern 10 tribes if Israel were never considered Jews because they did not follow the teaching and the customs of the Judeans. Much of the northern tribes were rejected by Jews because they intermarried with Assyrians and other gentiles and followed pagan religions and formed their own religion similar to Jews but mixed with paganism.  Northern Israel had their own forbidden temple and worship sites.  They became known as Samaritans and Jews had no association with them.  And just because you lived in Judea and or belong to one of the southern 2 tribes of Israel did not mean you were a Jew either.  It was based on if you lived according to Jewish teachings.  A Jew could be anyone who follows the teachings and customs of the Jews and this could also apply to any tribe of Israel and also foreigners as well.  For example Ruth who was a gentile became known as a Jew because she joined herself to the Kingdom of Judah and their God and is the great grandmother of King David and Jesus.  On the other hand a Hebrew/Israelite is one determined by birth meaning that you were a decedent of Abraham, Isaac or Jacob and could be decided from either the mother or father.  For example their were many patriarchs such as Joseph and Judah that had gentile wives yet their children were also called Israelites.  Being a Jew is mostly related to being a follower of the religion and customs of the Jews/Kingdom of Judah.  Again, not all Israelites belong to the Kingdom of Judah nor followed the teachings of the Jews and therefor not called Jews.  Those who rejected the Jewish teaching were considered Samaritans, Sinners, Heathen or Gentiles even if they belonged to one of the tribes of Israel.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Gershom_young]

On 11/23/2020 at 3:18 AM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

I think you mixing terminology of Jew and Israelite.  Not all of Israel are Jews.  The northern 10 tribes if Israel were never considered Jews because they did not follow the teaching and the customs of the Judeans. Much of the northern tribes were rejected by Jews because they intermarried with Assyrians and other gentiles and followed pagan religions and formed their own religion similar to Jews but mixed with paganism.  Northern Israel had their own forbidden temple and worship sites.  They became known as Samaritans and Jews had no association with them.  And just because you lived in Judea and or belong to one of the southern 2 tribes of Israel did not mean you were a Jew either.  It was based on if you lived according to Jewish teachings.  A Jew could be anyone who follows the teachings and customs of the Jews and this could also apply to any tribe of Israel and also foreigners as well.  For example Ruth who was a gentile became known as a Jew because she joined herself to the Kingdom of Judah and their God and is the great grandmother of King David and Jesus.  On the other hand a Hebrew/Israelite is one determined by birth meaning that you were a decedent of Abraham, Isaac or Jacob and could be decided from either the mother or father.  For example their were many patriarchs such as Joseph and Judah that had gentile wives yet their children were also called Israelites.  Being a Jew is mostly related to being a follower of the religion and customs of the Jews/Kingdom of Judah.  Again, not all Israelites belong to the Kingdom of Judah nor followed the teachings of the Jews and therefor not called Jews.  Those who rejected the Jewish teaching were considered Samaritans, Sinners, Heathen or Gentiles even if they belonged to one of the tribes of Israel.

I think the OP was referring to a common tradition today to determine one's "Jewishness" by one's mother. I know in Acts, Paul considered Timothy a Jew because his mother was Jewish. But as the bible says in Romans 2:28-29

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Irrespective of whether one's mother was Jewish, or whether one was ritually circumcised by a certified mohel or mohelet (or whether one is a female).

[Michael37]

I thought this was about moths. Sorry.

[Gershom_young]

17 hours ago, Michael37 said:

I thought this was about moths. Sorry.

Technically speaking, you are correct! :-)

Choose your moths carefully, children. Or you might not be Jewish enough! :0

Edited November 27, 2020 by Gershom_young