Mystery Babylon: U.N or Vatican?

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

America does entertain the Mystery Religions but as for being Mystery Babylon as Depicted in the Bible.... I just don't see it.

You might read Rev 17-18 & see how many times in both chapters mystery Babylon is called a city.

 

 

I never said it wasn't a City.  In Fact, it hasn't been destroyed yet and sits about 55 Miles South of Baghdad.  Point In Fact, Saddam was Rebuilding it!!

 

However, The "Mystery Religions" left there and after residing in various places through the Centuries Plopped Down Right on Rome and the RCC.

 

Having said that,  Read THIS!!!..........

 

(Zechariah 5:5-11) "Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.  {6} And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth.  {7} And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.  {8} And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.  {9} Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.  {10} Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah?  {11} And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base."

 

Shinar is mentioned 7 times in Scripture and is associated with Babylon....if Babylon is the City, Shinar is the County.

 

 

Guess what  Zechariah is saying here.......basically, that the "Mystery Religions" will relocate AND GO HOME!!!  

 

 

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Never been destroyed.  When I took a course in fulfilled prophecy, the never to be rebuilt thing was featured as a proof of fulfilled prophecy.  The illustration the prof used was by reading from Chiera's book, They Wrote on Clay where vividly the desolate site of Babylon is described in detail.  I know that the other POV is that the destruction of Babylon is yet to be fulfilled.  Someone told me that an Arab was paid to stay over night on the site in a tent.  Maybe you can convince me; but IMHO Babylon refers to Rome.  So have at me if you wish.

 

 

Babylon "Proper" was never destroyed.   Cyrus The Great defeated the Babylonians without a Battle "Prophecy".  It was just left to get swallowed up by the desert through the Centuries.  Alexander The Great didn't destroy it...He died there

 

I've been saying Rome and the RCC is "Mystery Babylon" this Whole Thread.  And the Zechariah Prophecy appears to be saying that the "Mystery Religions" that were birthed in Babylon Proper......will head home @ some point.

 

Good?

[Enoch2021]

But how does the U.N ride the beast if it (U.N) is the woman and the beast is the E.U (Revived Roman Empire)?

 

The UN or "ROME II" per Daniels Vision is the Beast.  "Mystery Babylon" rides that Political System.

 

Bear in Mind the Eastern Leg (Byzantine) of the Roman Empire outlasted the Western Leg (Europe) by 1000 years.  And there are passages in Isaiah and Micah that refer to him as the Assyrian.   When you get time...go back and review my first post with all the pictures...that will help.

[Enoch2021]

 

But how does the U.N ride the beast if it (U.N) is the woman and the beast is the E.U (Revived Roman Empire)?

 

The UN or "ROME II" per Daniels Vision is the Beast.  "Mystery Babylon" rides that Political System.

 

Bear in Mind the Eastern Leg (Byzantine) of the Roman Empire outlasted the Western Leg (Europe) by 1000 years.  And there are passages in Isaiah and Micah that refer to him as the Assyrian.   When you get time...go back and review my first post with all the pictures...that will help.

 

 

 

It's post #83: 

[kingdomwitness]

I know, I saw the pic. But shouldn't we also be considering the European Parliament?

[Enoch2021]

I know, I saw the pic. But shouldn't we also be considering the European Parliament?

 

Didn't I explain it?

[EnochBethany]

 

 

 

 

America does entertain the Mystery Religions but as for being Mystery Babylon as Depicted in the Bible.... I just don't see it.

You might read Rev 17-18 & see how many times in both chapters mystery Babylon is called a city.

 

 

I never said it wasn't a City.  In Fact, it hasn't been destroyed yet and sits about 55 Miles South of Baghdad.  Point In Fact, Saddam was Rebuilding it!!

 

However, The "Mystery Religions" left there and after residing in various places through the Centuries Plopped Down Right on Rome and the RCC.

 

Having said that,  Read THIS!!!..........

 

(Zechariah 5:5-11) "Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.  {6} And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth.  {7} And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.  {8} And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.  {9} Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.  {10} Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah?  {11} And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base."

 

Shinar is mentioned 7 times in Scripture and is associated with Babylon....if Babylon is the City, Shinar is the County.

 

 

Guess what  Zechariah is saying here.......basically, that the "Mystery Religions" will relocate AND GO HOME!!!  

 

 

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Never been destroyed.  When I took a course in fulfilled prophecy, the never to be rebuilt thing was featured as a proof of fulfilled prophecy.  The illustration the prof used was by reading from Chiera's book, They Wrote on Clay where vividly the desolate site of Babylon is described in detail.  I know that the other POV is that the destruction of Babylon is yet to be fulfilled.  Someone told me that an Arab was paid to stay over night on the site in a tent.  Maybe you can convince me; but IMHO Babylon refers to Rome.  So have at me if you wish.

 

 

Babylon "Proper" was never destroyed.   Cyrus The Great defeated the Babylonians without a Battle "Prophecy".  It was just left to get swallowed up by the desert through the Centuries.  Alexander The Great didn't destroy it...He died there

 

I've been saying Rome and the RCC is "Mystery Babylon" this Whole Thread.  And the Zechariah Prophecy appears to be saying that the "Mystery Religions" that were birthed in Babylon Proper......will head home @ some point.

 

Good?

 

I am confused.  I thought you were saying that Mystery Babylon referred to the city of Babylon in Mesopotamia, but now you say Rome + the RCC.  Back to square 1:  The harlot is a city, period, repeated 6 X.  There is no "church," no "ekklesia" in Rev 17-18.  How on earth can you read the RCC into it? 

[Enoch2021]

I am confused.  I thought you were saying that Mystery Babylon referred to the city of Babylon in Mesopotamia, but now you say Rome + the RCC.  Back to square 1:  The harlot is a city, period, repeated 6 X.  There is no "church," no "ekklesia" in Rev 17-18.  How on earth can you read the RCC into it?

 

 

Here what I said: 

 

(Revelation 17:4-6) "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:  {5} And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.  {6} And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

 

This is The RCC; "Mystery Babylon".  The "Mystery Religions" were birthed in Babylon Proper.  Both are Prophesied to take a Dirt Nap. 

 

Woman in the Bible are "TYPES" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Churches  (Either Apostate or Virgin Brides).

 

Good?

[kingdomwitness]

How does the RCC commit abomination with the kings of the earth?

[Enoch2021]

How does the RCC commit abomination with the kings of the earth?

 

 

She is the Temporal power behind the "Kings of the Earth".

 

Abomination is Idol Worship, she worships Idols.  See:  Abomination That Makes Desolate

[EnochBethany]

 

I am confused.  I thought you were saying that Mystery Babylon referred to the city of Babylon in Mesopotamia, but now you say Rome + the RCC.  Back to square 1:  The harlot is a city, period, repeated 6 X.  There is no "church," no "ekklesia" in Rev 17-18.  How on earth can you read the RCC into it?

 

 

Here what I said: 

 

(Revelation 17:4-6) "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:  {5} And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.  {6} And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

 

This is The RCC; "Mystery Babylon".  The "Mystery Religions" were birthed in Babylon Proper.  Both are Prophesied to take a Dirt Nap. 

 

Woman in the Bible are "TYPES" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Churches  (Either Apostate or Virgin Brides).

 

Good?

 

Revelation 17:4-6) "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 

 

Vs 4 says nothing about religion specifically.  If it said adultery, instead of fornication, one would have a stronger case. But even then, IMHO, to be commit spiritual adultery requires a marriage to YHWH or to Christ, which "Babylon" never had.  Thus if it said, "adultery," it would seem to disqualify the RCC; but it does not say, "adultery," rather fornication (a word that includes adultery, but not specific to it).

 

Check your figurative use of fornication in the Bible.  Does it specifically imply religion & nothing else?

 

{5} And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 

 ἡ μήτηρ τῶν πορνῶν καὶ τῶν βδελυγμάτων τῆς γῆς.

 

On the word translated "harlots" (pornōn, singular pornē):

 

BDAG Lexicon:  "2. a political entity hostile to God, prostitute, whore, fig. ext. of 1 (s. πορνεία and πορνεύω; Is 1:21; 23:15f; Jer 3:3; Ezk 16:30f, 35) as the designation of a government that is hostile to God and God’s people Rv 17:15f. ἡ πόρνη ἡ μεγάλη vs. 1; 19:2. Βαβυλὼν (q.v.) ἡ μεγάλη ἡ μήτηρ τῶν πορνῶν 17:5 (unless masc. πόρνων is to be read, s. next entry)."

 

(BDAG points out that the word could be taken as masculine, pornos πόρνος.)

 

So I guess we could check those refs:  Isaiah 1; 23; Jeremiah 3; Ezekiel 16.  BDAG is not infallible, but it takes it as political.

 

"{6} And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

 

The RCC is not the only entity which has killed saints.  How does the RCC compare with Stalin, Hitler, & the ChiComs?  This vs wud fit the RCC, but it does not have to be the RCC, as there are other organizations/governments also guilty.

 

Just saying that this is the RCC does not establish it.  My bro, I don't see the RCC here, neither is there anything in the text which establishes that interp.

 

Lets leave it at city.  If it is city, then it is not the RCC, which is no city.

 

But I am still confused as to your interp.  Didn't you claim it was Babylon in Mesopotamia? 

 

Now how do you know that The "Mystery Religions" were birthed in Babylon Proper, instead of say in Sumeria?  When do you think that Babylon gave birth to mystery religions?  If, for example, the claim is 1000 BC, then we need ancient texts written no later than 900 BC that say so.  Do you have such? 

 

And where is mystery religions in Rev 17-18?  To begin with, I don't know where "religion" is specifically designated in Rev 17-18.  But once one has proven that religion is meant, then it remains to prove that it refers specifically to mystery religions.

 

BDAG stands for Bauer-Danker-Arndt-Gingrich Greek Lexicon, description should be found on Amazon.

 

One practical application of the finding that the RCC is not referenced in Rev 17-18 is that one can avoid offending papists who will be quite annoyed at one trying to stick the RCC in there, not that their offense would stop me if it were true.  There are plenty of things wrong with the RCC, but trying put them down based on eisegesis of Rev 17-18 is not helpful.