Water and Baptism?

[veryberry]

You must understand the differences between the Kingdom of Heaven( a kingdom that can be taken by force, just like any other kingdom on earth)(Mat 11:12) and the Kingdom of God(which is inside of you)(Luke 17:21) The Kingdom of God cannot be taken by force.  Though they seem the same, they are different and what is different is not the same.

 

The Kingdom of Heaven is physical.

The Kingdom of God is Spiritual.

[Butch5]

You must understand the differences between the Kingdom of Heaven( a kingdom that can be taken by force, just like any other kingdom on earth)(Mat 11:12) and the Kingdom of God(which is inside of you)(Luke 17:21) The Kingdom of God cannot be taken by force.  Though they seem the same, they are different and what is different is not the same.

 

The Kingdom of Heaven is physical.

The Kingdom of God is Spiritual.

There is no difference between the terms. Mathew uses the term "Kingdom of Heaven" the other writers use the term "Kingdom of God".The terms are used interchangeably. Spiritual does not mean non Physical, it is an adjective and give a quality of something. Consider Paul's words to the Galatians.

 

1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. (Gal 6:1 KJV)

 

Or the Corinthians,

 

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. (1Co 2:14-15 KJV)

 

These were physical people that Paul is writing to and he refers to them being spiritual. He is not saying they are non material. He simply describing them as having qualities of the Spirit. 

 

The phrase,

 

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luk 17:21 KJV)

 

Is better translated "among you". In this statement Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees. He called them children of the Devil, hypocrites, and white washed tombs, it's doubtful that he was telling them that the kingdom of God resides in them. It's more likely that He was telling them the kingdom of God was among them since He Himself was among them 

[just_fish]

Very interesting thread to say the least.

 

I like to look at this passage in light of John 3:3. The structure of the Greek terms John uses he repeats ("except a man be born..."), and for "again" in 3:3 indicates from above, which when then applied in context to 3:5 and 6 would point to a spiritual, or "living water".

 

I have to agree that Jesus is indicating something to do with Himself, not physical H20.

 

As far as baptism goes (Edwin since you changed the title....... ) saves no one. Grace through faith alone. Always remember the thief on the cross............

 

Good stuff.

God Bless

[Guest]

It's water. It's the same thing He said in Mark 16, 'He who believes and is baptized shall be saved'. There's no reason to think that His use of  the word water means anything other than simply, water. It's a reference to baptism

 

~

 

Jesus

 

O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters. Jeremiah 17:13

 

The Fountain

 

For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. Jeremiah 2:13

 

Of Living Waters

 

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. Revelation 21:6

 

~

 

He Who Believes

 

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

 

And Is

 

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Peter 1:21-23

 

Baptized

 

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Matthew 3:11

 

~

 

Dear One, Are You A Follower Of Mr. Joseph "The Digger" Smith

 

And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Mark 1:7-8

 

Or Of Papa Francis Or Of Some Other Baptizing Man

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

 

Other Than That Holy Man

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

 

From Galilee

 

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

 

~

 

Believe

 

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

 

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:12-15

 

And Be

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

Blessed Beloved

 

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. John 14:1-3

 

Love, Joe

[Guest DRS81]

I would like to know just what your understanding of "water" is in the verse below.

 

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 

 

Thank you.

 

Edwin.

 

except a man be born of water and of the Spirit: http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/john-3-5.html

 these are, (twnv) (twlm) , "two words", which express the same thing, as Kimchi observes in many places in his commentaries, and signify the grace of the Spirit of God. The Vulgate Latin and Ethiopic versions read, "the Holy Spirit", and so Nonnus; and who doubtless is intended: by "water", is not meant material water, or baptismal water; for water baptism is never expressed by water only, without some additional word, which shows, that the ordinance of water baptism is intended: nor has baptism any regenerating influence in it; a person may be baptized, as Simon Magus was, and yet not born again; and it is so far from having any such virtue, that a person ought to be born again, before he is admitted to that ordinance: and though submission to it is necessary, in order to a person's entrance into a Gospel church state; yet it is not necessary to the kingdom of heaven, or to eternal life and salvation: such a mistaken sense of this text, seems to have given the first birth and rise to infant baptism in the African churches; who taking the words in this bad sense, concluded their children must be baptized, or they could not be saved; whereas by "water" is meant, in a figurative and metaphorical sense, the grace of God, as it is elsewhere; see ( Ezekiel 36:25 ) ( John 4:14 ) . Which is the moving cause of this new birth, and according to which God begets men again to, a lively hope, and that by which it is effected; for it is by the grace of God, and not by the power of man's free will, that any are regenerated, or made new creatures: and if Nicodemus was an officer in the temple, that took care to provide water at the feasts, as Dr. Lightfoot thinks, and as it should seem Nicodemon ben Gorion was, by the story before related of him; (See Gill on John 3:1); very pertinently does our Lord make mention of water, it being his own element: regeneration is sometimes ascribed to God the Father, as in ( 1 Peter 1:3 ) ( James 1:18 ) , and sometimes to the Son, ( 1 John 2:29 ) and here to the Spirit, as in ( Titus 3:5 ) , who convinces of sin, sanctifies, renews, works faith, and every other grace; begins and carries on the work of grace, unto perfection;