Considering the prophecy of Matthew 24:29

[GlidingWings]

 Hi I do believe that Matt 24 verse 29 is the Sixth seal. Let’s remember now this is what created ‘Pre Trib Rapture’. Pre trib likes to find small differences in verses to make them separate events. Example:

 

Matthew 24 verse 30 and 31 They call this “Not the Rapture. But they call this the Gathering of the Jews’. Because even Pre trib knows this is the end of the great trib. There is no turning back. So there must be an explanation what this gathering is. So they say no this is not the Rapture but the Jews being gathered to Jesus. Then they say but now 1Thess chapter 4 sixteen and seventeen yes this is the Rapture for the Church. And why? because if they believe that is a rapture they would be here during the trib. Since they don’t they need to make Matt 24: 30-31 a gathering of the Jews instead..

 

Now about the sixth seal. How many times will there be a darkened sun and a moon not giving its light ‘plus’ the stars fallen and the Heavens shaken? These not just 2 but 4 signs together at once. So Matt. 24:29 and the sixth seal has all 4 signs. But we learn in the first 4 trumpets that God was responsible for taking light away from the sun, moon, and stars. So there is a good reason why this has taken place.

I compare Mathew 24 to the sixth seal because the sixth seal and Matthew 24 both happen at the end. 29 at the end of those days… sixth seal the last Judgment seal on the Earth. I don’t think this has anything to do with the feast of tabernacle. For then this would be a Gospel for the Jews only. But we know the New Testament 27 books are that for Christians, Elect chosen of God both Jews and Gentiles.

 

So if God is showing signs at the end of the age then God must show signs which both Christians and Jews will know the Day of the Lord is near. The Jews won’t be able to move anyway anywhere until Jesus destroys the Antichrist. They will be hopeless until Jesus returns at the end of the trib. No, everyone does not die when Jesus returns because now remember there is another 1000 years millennium kingdom and Armageddon is not the last war. It is however the last war at the end of the Great trib.

[Guest DRS81]

Why is everyone ignoring post 6.

[GlidingWings]

Why is everyone ignoring post 6.

Hi Drs This take you found online pretty much sounds like preterism. For I was recently debating with someone at another forum with these beliefs. They therefore can't take the sun and the moon to be literal but rathering associating the temple destroyed in Jersusalem in 70AD. Of course which they belived happend 2000 yrs ago.

 

I disagree with those views and believe the sun and moon are real and future events.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hi I do believe that Matt 24 verse 29 is the Sixth seal. Let’s remember now this is what created ‘Pre Trib Rapture’. Pre trib likes to find small differences in verses to make them separate events. Example:

 

Matthew 24 verse 30 and 31 They call this “Not the Rapture. But they call this the Gathering of the Jews’. Because even Pre trib knows this is the end of the great trib. There is no turning back. So there must be an explanation what this gathering is. So they say no this is not the Rapture but the Jews being gathered to Jesus. Then they say but now 1Thess chapter 4 sixteen and seventeen yes this is the Rapture for the Church. And why? because if they believe that is a rapture they would be here during the trib. Since they don’t they need to make Matt 24: 30-31 a gathering of the Jews instead..

 

Now about the sixth seal. How many times will there be a darkened sun and a moon not giving its light ‘plus’ the stars fallen and the Heavens shaken? These not just 2 but 4 signs together at once. So Matt. 24:29 and the sixth seal has all 4 signs. But we learn in the first 4 trumpets that God was responsible for taking light away from the sun, moon, and stars. So there is a good reason why this has taken place.

I compare Mathew 24 to the sixth seal because the sixth seal and Matthew 24 both happen at the end. 29 at the end of those days… sixth seal the last Judgment seal on the Earth. I don’t think this has anything to do with the feast of tabernacle. For then this would be a Gospel for the Jews only. But we know the New Testament 27 books are that for Christians, Elect chosen of God both Jews and Gentiles.

 

So if God is showing signs at the end of the age then God must show signs which both Christians and Jews will know the Day of the Lord is near. The Jews won’t be able to move anyway anywhere until Jesus destroys the Antichrist. They will be hopeless until Jesus returns at the end of the trib. No, everyone does not die when Jesus returns because now remember there is another 1000 years millennium kingdom and Armageddon is not the last war. It is however the last war at the end of the Great trib.

Hmmmm. So now there's more on my plate already. No offense, brother, but I don't think this is going very well. Please just ignore my earlier comments and carry on. May the Good Lord bless you as you study His word!

Cheers

[GlidingWings]

Hi I've done more study tonight and I am now more sure than ever that Matt 24:29 and the sixth seal are the same and one event. It may not seem that way as I did not once know these were the same. It takes some time to pause and compare these parts of the Bible.

 

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

 

12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold,[e] there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon[f] became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.

Please let me briefly share why this is the same event with the same exact signs I will illustrate. Matt. 24:29 sun darkened. Now in Rev. 6:12 the sixth seal it says the sun becomes as Black as sackcloth. So that sign matches black is also darkened sun.

 

2. Matt 24 moon not giving its light. Now the sixth seal says The moon became as blood. A blood moon happens when the the Sun is darkened and the moon is often not visible making it a “True blood moon. Which is why Matt 24 not giving its light. So the moon matches also.

 

3 The Heavens are shaken Matt 24. Now the sixth seal pay close attention to this one to see in the sixth seal it says it shall be as a fig tree blowing in the wind the tree is shaken. This sixth seal description also matches heaven shaken. Because those heavens being talked about are ‘Stars” or “ Meteorites and or asteroids’ for these Heavenly body’s God will divinely shake these bodies causing them to fall to the Earth.

 

One is named “Wormwood. But there will be more because stars is plural. So my final conclusion is Matt 24:29 and Rev.6 the Sixth seal are one in the same but only using slightly different words with yet the same exact meaning and same exact timing.

 

Why are they the same? Matt 24:29 happens at the end of those days. Sixth seal also happens at the end of the trib. It is the last seal before the seventh which the seventh opens the seven trumpets. So the rapture gathering and God’s wrath happens on the same exact day. Do you want to know who will survive? I will then explain if anyone wants to know.

[Montana Marv]

Then what about the Trumpet and Bowl judgments which all come out of the 7th Seal.  The tribulation of those days ends sometime after the 7th Bowl judgment. But most likely after Armageddon. The sackcloth like sun and the blood moon are earthly views of the two.  They sill shine forth or reflect the sun.  It is atmospheric disturbances which make them look that way.

 

Vs 29 corresponds better to Zech 16:6,7 - On that day, there will be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

Yet later on with the 4th Trumpet - 1/3 of the sun and moon and stars are struck so they each gave off 1/3rd less light.  This is after the 6th Seal when the sun is like sackcloth and the moon as blood.  hmmm daylight was shortened by 1/3 so even the elect may live.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[kingdomwitness]

The stars falling from the sky, to me are symbolic of angels or saints. Now someone made mention about the Wormwood prophecy, well it doesn't necessarily imply a meteor but is symbolic. Now the great star fallen from heaven should be Satan. The bible says that it was burning as a lamp and no doubt that Satan has the title as "Angel of light" and falling upon one third of rivers and fountain of waters means falling on the Gentile nations as the sea represent foreign nations. And making the waters wormwood or bitter means corrupting the Gentile nations with idolatry, adultery and other forms of sins. Now if you may notice, Satan had succeeded in corrupting foreign nations except Israel in the times of Abraham and the patriarchs and Moses. Now any men who drank of the waters died in the sense of a spiritual or moral death. It means that any one who allowed the corrupted ones to influence them ends up being corrupted. Now if you also notice, Israel only followed after idolatry as a result of influence from other nations. Thanks for keeping this thread alive. With love kingdomwitness

[GlidingWings]

First to kingdom witness. I think you are over spiritualizing the meaning of scriptures which is often what Preterism does to explain the physical aspects changing them into spiritual and or symbolic replacing the literal text of translation..

 

Matt 24 has to be considered as what language is being used to describe end time events. For the Disciples said to Jesus Why do you speak unto them parables but you Jesus speak to us plainly? Jesus said assuredly to you I have told you plainly the kingdom of God but unto them I have spoken parables. They see but they do not perceive what they are seeing. They listen and hear and yet they still don’t understand. I tell them parables for that reason. For if they don’t even already believe what they see how will they believe what they don’t see.

 

Why do I bring this fact in? Because the Disciples ‘plainly asked Jesus about the signs of the end of the age. Jesus therefore gives us plain every day language. So if we symbolize Matthew 24 to make this symbolic we will then change the meaning of Jesus plain words spoken to the Disciples.

Notice when Jesus says “It is like’ or saying this parable I say to you. When Jesus uses this that’s when Jesus is speaking in comparisons. But outside of those sections Jesus spoke plainly. Jesus told us there would be wars and rumors of wars. Should we make that symbolic? Jesus said earthquakes. Make that symbolic? There will be famines. That all should not be taken literally. That would be wrong to symbolize the entire Matt. 24 Olivet Discourse. Because if we symbolize this we have brought things into new meanings and different Biblical translation drifting away from Literal meaning of wars and quakes which we know are real signs..

 

Matthew 24:29 are real signs everyone will be able to see clearly. This is why Jesus gives us the parable of the Fig tree for when you see these signs you know that summer is near. So it is by these visible signs that we will know the day of the Lord is now very near. To see these signs it won't take an astronaut or meteorologist to see this. These will be evident because Jesus does not want anyone at all to miss this. This way there would not be any mistake or any mistranslation to not know the day. But when we see these signs we will know that day.

[kingdomwitness]

Revelation contains symbolism and could refer to both past and future. For example about the dragon and the woman. John the beloved made it clear that the dragon drew one third of stars with his tail and cast them to earth. Now consider the time of Satan's rebellion, when he came down from the high position one third of angels followed him. That was a past event and that was what John refered to here. Revelation, though is much of future events but it uses past events perhaps to make the future more clearer like the aspect of the woman fleeing to the wilderness, I believe it happened when Israel was on exile in foreign nations until 1948 perhaps when it was re-established as a nation. I don't believe in preterism but I believe that to make the future or present clearer, one must refer to the past.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Then what about the Trumpet and Bowl judgments which all come out of the 7th Seal.  The tribulation of those days ends sometime after the 7th Bowl judgment. But most likely after Armageddon. The sackcloth like sun and the blood moon are earthly views of the two.  They sill shine forth or reflect the sun.  It is atmospheric disturbances which make them look that way.

 

Vs 29 corresponds better to Zech 16:6,7 - On that day, there will be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

Yet later on with the 4th Trumpet - 1/3 of the sun and moon and stars are struck so they each gave off 1/3rd less light.  This is after the 6th Seal when the sun is like sackcloth and the moon as blood.  hmmm daylight was shortened by 1/3 so even the elect may live.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

I don't think you're even close here, Marv. First, there is no chapter 16 in Zechariah. But I know you meant Zech. 14, so I'll overlook that. But you have this all twisted. The tribulation of those days does not come after God's wrath, which is actually the Day of the Lord.  That's the first time I've ever heard anyone say that.  But I know how pre-tribbers assume Daniel's 70th week, the tribulation and God's wrath are all the same thing, but they are not.  They are all different. 

 

In the tribulation, the nations will be in the worst world war since there was a nation (Dan. 12:1), such has not been since the beginning of the world, and never will be again (Matt. 24:21).  This is not God's wrath or after the bowl judgments.  These days will then be shortened for the sake of the elect, otherwise no flesh will be saved (Matt. 24:22).  Then in Matt. 24:29-31, immediately after the tribulation of those days, we see the sign of the Son of man, the Lord coming in the clouds where He sends the angels to gather His elect.  This is not even close to what we see in Zech. 14.

 

In Zech. we see the Day of the Lord coming (wrath).  This is the second coming.  He will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem, where He will execute His righteous judgment and kill them all.  Then all of the survivors from the nations will go up to worship the King from year to year (feast of tabernacles), which is referring to the millennial kingdom. 

 

There is a HUGE difference between gathering His elect in Matthew 24 and gathering the nations for judgment in Matt. 25:31-46, which is also the war of Armageddon.  His wrath (anger) will come when He destroys all His enemies, but before He judges the nations, He must first bring judgment to the house of God (1 Pet. 4:17), which is exactly what we see happening, beginning with Matt. 24:31 all the way to Matt. 25:30.  And this next verse confirms this.

 

Revelation 11:18

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

He clearly judges and rewards His servants before He unleashes His wrath upon the goats.

 

Cheers