Dad Ernie Posted December 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Greetings, I received the following from David Wilkerson and would appreciate your thoughts on "the restrainer": Times Square Church Pulpit Series ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Holy Spirit, Come Back to Your Church by David Wilkerson October 25, 2004 When God birthed his church, he poured out his Holy Spirit on it. He baptized it in the Holy Spirit, filled it with the Spirit, and anointed it with the Spirit. And wherever the Spirit of God is present, there are clear proofs or evidences. Yet if these evidences aren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salt and light Posted December 16, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 302 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 16, 2004 I believe it could be Michael the archangel who is the restrainer, since he fought Lucifer and kicked him out of heaven, and will fight him again according to Rev. chapter 12, and Michael also contended with him in Jude 9, plus Daniel said, ".....and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince." {Dan. 10:21}. I believe that after this future battle between the devil and Michael, when the devil is cast down here, God will take Michael out of the way. The apostle Paul said in 2 Thess. 2:6, "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time". I don't believe that is refering to the Holy Spirit, since the Holy Spirit is not a "what", and I don't believe it is the Church, since the Church is not a "he", the Church is the bride of Christ {female gender like the "elect lady" in 2 John 1:1}, Michael fits both categorys, since an angel is a "what", and Michael is a "he". If the Church which is indwelt with the Holy Spirit is the restrainer that gets taken out of the way, you think Paul would have said in verse 7, "until YE be taken out of the way", or, "until WE be taken out of the way", or, "until the Holy Spirit be taken out of the way". If it's not Michael, then it could be "truth" that is the restrainer, and what is truth? the word of God, and it has already been taken out of the way for the most part, like in the public schools for example, plus, the word can be a "what" that withholdeth, and since Jesus {he} is the Word made flesh, it could be truth that is the restrainer that will be fully taken out of the way. I have a hard time believing it is the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is here now, and the Church is in a spiritual mess, especially in America, the devil is having a field day with us, with all the false teachings, and corrupt versions of the bible, and Laodicean type churches. I fully believe the restrainer is either Michael, or truth, or maybe a little of both, God knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hubertdorm Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 DadErnie, This is a very personal topic. Right now, I'm watching a simulaneous division and uniting across America in the Churches of Christ. Why? Like David Wilkerson said, the Holy Spirit cleanses and exposes. The churches of dry bones are becoming dryer and losing membership, while others, revived in the Spirit, are growing and reaching. In one light, we are working the opposite. We've been "restrained" already by our man-made rules and legalism, and now it is the Spirit who is freeing us from this bondage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliveoil Posted January 13, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 60 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/21/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2005 If one will look at the work of the Holy Spirit, which you did here, and then look at what will have to take place in order for man to be deceived into thinking Satan is God. The only conclusion is that its the Holy Spirit thats keeping man from falling into the deepest pit of all times. Good and evil are the greatest powers known to man. Just try to envision a world without evil, then do the same with one minus of love. A human heart void of any Godly influence. A place where murder, lies, greed, lust just goes unchecked. Thats how it was before the flood and how it will be again in the trib. As long as Gods spirit dwells on earth satan can't be free to rule the earth in his final quest to take Gods place. Revelation isn't a war between God and man but a war between God and Satan. Man is just the players on this huge chess board. This is Satans final hour and God will let him have his way and his spirit will have to be with drawn from this earth in order for the players to be drawn to the battle of all ages. Thats why I believe in a pre- wrath rapture for I have the Holy Spirit and he works within me. He will never leave me so I will conclude that when he leaves I will go also. People have no ideal how bad things are going to get when that bottomless pit is opened and all those demons thats been in chains for centuries will be unleashed on this earth. The unbridled hate that man will have for man. Jesus told us how man's heart will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted January 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 As long as Gods spirit dwells on earth satan can't be free to rule the earth in his final quest to take Gods place. Revelation isn't a war between God and man but a war between God and Satan. Man is just the players on this huge chess board. This is Satans final hour and God will let him have his way and his spirit will have to be with drawn from this earth in order for the players to be drawn to the battle of all ages. Thats why I believe in a pre- wrath rapture for I have the Holy Spirit and he works within me. He will never leave me so I will conclude that when he leaves I will go also. People have no ideal how bad things are going to get when that bottomless pit is opened and all those demons thats been in chains for centuries will be unleashed on this earth. The unbridled hate that man will have for man. Jesus told us how man's heart will be. Greetings Olive Oil, I think you have a misconception of the trib period. Please let me clarify: Rev 7:2-3 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Notice first that all the Saints of God shall be sealed. We are told that elsewhere that we are "sealed in the Holy Spirit". Then notice that "multitudes beyond count" that ARE sealed and go through the great tribulation. The Holy Spirit IS NOT withdrawn. Yet, we see for those tribulation years: Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Only at the resurrection/rapture is the Holy Spirit withdrawn at the 7th trumpet, which is immediately prior to the destruction of Babylon by God's WRATH. Do you see what I am getting at? Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hubertdorm Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I would also like to point out that it is impossible for a person to be saved without the power of the Holy Spirit. Thus, if the Holy Spirit departs the earth in a pre-trib rapture, we have no way to account for the salvation of those during the tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hubertdorm Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 That is an interesting point Zhavonay, but I believe the the restrainer is an individual, referred once as a "he" twice and "it"once. This seems to be some kind of Angel who can physically hold-down and restrain the work of lawlessness. The word speaks of lawlessness as those who are disobedient to God, not just people living without human regulation, thus, I don't see the "work of lawlessness" meaning a state of having no human laws. BTW, I'm not sure who read Dad Earnie's original post, but it really has nothing to do with the posts that have followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idied2 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 That is an interesting point Zhavonay, but I believe the the restrainer is an individual, referred once as a "he" twice and "it"once. This seems to be some kind of Angel who can physically hold-down and restrain the work of lawlessness. The word speaks of lawlessness as those who are disobedient to God, not just people living without human regulation, thus, I don't see the "work of lawlessness" meaning a state of having no human laws. BTW, I'm not sure who read Dad Earnie's original post, but it really has nothing to do with the posts that have followed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Where do you get the "It once" in that scripture? I'm trying to understand. I understand what zhavonay is saying. It's like GOD raising up babylon to carry away israel and judah. HE also created the laws of man and their inforcement agencies to restrain the people. So when he takes them out of the way by removing the whole supply of food and water from the planet through HIS two witnesses everyone will kill each other. Then the man of sin will be revealed. 2The 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. In CHRIST JESUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted January 19, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 19, 2005 When the people willfully ask to remove God from everything, then He will be taken out. God will remove Himself, and the lawlessness will begin. The people will come under the very god they desire. They will begin to experience the power of lawlessness, and it will not be pleasant. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted January 19, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 19, 2005 I believe it could be Michael the archangel who is the restrainer, since he fought Lucifer and kicked him out of heaven, and will fight him again according to Rev. chapter 12, and Michael also contended with him in Jude 9, plus Daniel said, ".....and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince." {Dan. 10:21}. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I tend to agree, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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