More evidence of Noah's Flood?

[Enoch2021]

 

Blessings Old School....

    I don't think so,that as far as "they "were concerned the whole earth as flooded.......the Scriptures are Gods Word,not by any interpretation of men(they were merely Gods "pen')So if the Lord says....the earth was flooded,then the earth was flooded......IMO     God Bless you

                                                                                                      With love-in Christ,Kwik

God says the sun moves and the earth stands fast.  Are you a geocentric?  Can you point to a single verse that speaks of the earth moving around the Sun?  

 

You are assuming a theory about "inspiration"; you read "inspired" and then impose YOUR definition of "inspiration" upon the Bible.  We see the same thing occurring among the youth when they are told Christ is "perfect"--from their perspective this means that "Christ was the best basketball player, or aced algebra, or could play the flute flawlessly).  

 

There is much debate among good pious Christians as to what it means to be inspired.  Your quote from 2 Peter is about the "impulse" behind the Bible, not the mode by which it is communicated (i.e. poetry, narrative, allegory, metaphor, myth, fable etc.).  Peter is saying that Scripture is not based on the whims of men.  It says nothing about how we are to determine the genre of their message.  They were "carried along by the Holy Spirit".  This does not imply "dictation".  The verse of 2 Peter poses Man vs. God.  It does not settle the question of whether God used various genres or whether God utilized the particular experience of each other.

 

clb

 

clb

 

 

 

 

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God says the sun moves and the earth stands fast.

 

Preposterous!

 

(Joshua 10:12) "Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon."

 

 

Who commanded the SUN to Stand Still?  Joshua or GOD?

 

From the Observers point of view "Joshua", did the SUN APPEAR to do just that?

 

 

Moreover, the Scripture from Psalms and JOB that you forgot to post in the other thread(except for the Book Chapter and Verse NUMBER) are below, and .....speak nothing concerning your point:

 

(Job 9:6) "Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble."

 

(Psalms 19:4) "Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,"

 

Can you show me where it says the SUN Moves and the Earth "Stands Fast" in the above passages?

 

I've already spoken to the "inspired" part of your message in GOD is The Author Topic.

 

 

Can you point to a single verse that speaks of the earth moving around the Sun?

 

Can you point me to a verse where it talks about Salamanders?  Do we have Salamanders?

 

The Absence of Evidence doesn't mean the Evidence of Absence.  However, it appears the exact PHRASE that you're looking for is not in Scripture.....but that doesn't Prove anything. (SEE: Salamanders)

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Enoch!

     Thats pretty funny ....good point,,,,,,,,you have more patience than I today,I cannot even entertain this conversation.....but we keep getting the emails-LOL

God Bless you.....Glory to God!

                                                                                                                                                            With love-in Christ,Kwik

[a-seeker]

First, let’s not forget the point of the last couple posts.  The point was that Biblical interpretation had to adjust to scientific progress.  Today a similar situation is advised by many within the Church: but this advice is reproved by YECs who say such would subordinate the Bible to science.  But such a maneuver already happened.  Your counter is that the Church was misreading the Bible up until after Galileo.  Your words were “they weren’t reading it closely”.  I take this to mean that if they had read it “closely” they would have seen, without the help of science! that the Bible teaches heliocentricism, despite the obvious appearance of the sun’s movement in day to day experience.  I pointed out several verses that sure look like they teach geocentricism.  I take it from you that if I only read them close enough, I would see that they clearly teach geocentricism. I say this is nonsense.  The Bible corroborates our perception that the Sun moves.  No one here believes that the Sun actually moves.

 

So when we read the verses we are assuming we know no astronomy that existed after Copernicus.  All we have is the appearance of a moving sun from day to day.  (Once more, I labor to say, your contention is that if we read the texts carefully we will see that it teaches heliocentricism.

 

Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, "O sun, stand still at Gibeon, And O moon in the valley of Aijalon."

 13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

 (Jos 10:12-13 NAS)

 

From this alone, a close reading of the text would show that it was merely a metaphor, right?

 

From psalm 19

 

Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their utterances to the end of the world. In them He has placed a tent for the sun,

 ⁵ Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; It rejoices as a strong man to run his course.

 ⁶ Its rising is from one end of the heavens, And its circuit to the other end of them; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.

 

From this alone, a close reading would show that the sun doesn't move, but the earth does.  Right?

 

Elsewhere:

 

He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever. (Psa 104:5 NAS)

 

Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved. (Psa 93:1 NAS)

 

From these alone, we should see that really the earth does move.  Right?

 

Now, quid pro quo, can you show me any verse that shows the opposite; the sun is fixed and the earth moves around it?

 

clb

[a-seeker]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

       

 

 

 

 

What....They just guessed??

 

They've got thousands of these.  Here's a Ton:  http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/

 

 

I'm starting to worry about you Connor.

 

Hahaha.

 

Good call.  No, that was an inadvertence.  I admit (and you can take advantage of this) that I am having difficulty at what I call "playing the game".  I don't read Genesis 1-12 like you and others do.  But in order to challenge you I have to assume that view point (in argument it's called "beating them on their own terrain"). It's rather difficult, but very good mental exercise.  So I am juggling a bit and sometimes drop the ball.  All the other points however stand.  Chiefly, that the author of Genesis knew about dinosaurs and that dinosaurs made it onto Noah's ark.  The question of whether historical men co-existed with historical dinosaurs I leave to science--and apparently (as shown above) they did.

 

clb

 

 

 

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All the other points however stand.  Chiefly, that the author of Genesis knew about dinosaurs and that dinosaurs made it onto Noah's ark.

 

Well Yes, HE made them.   And yes, I'm absolutely sure...... with 100% Certitude, HE arranged for them to be on the Ark

 

Yes, yes yes, the failure to distinguish between the human and Divine author.

 

Now, did God shrink the argentinosauroses?  

 

clb

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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Today a similar situation is advised by many within the Church:

 

What Church?

 

 

I pointed out several verses that sure look like they teach geocentricism.

 

You pointed out no such thing.  With "Sure Look Like" being the Key Statement.

 

 

(Once more, I labor to say, your contention is that if we read the texts carefully we will see that it teaches heliocentricism.

 

My contention is ....it doesn't teach either way.  It's not a Science Book.

 

 

13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

(Jos 10:12-13 NAS)

 

From this alone, a close reading of the text would show that it was merely a metaphor, right?

 

 

No.  It's Joshua (As the OBSERVER) describing what he was observing and what he needed to accomplish the Mission.

 

 

 

Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their utterances to the end of the world. In them He has placed a tent for the sun,

 

5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; It rejoices as a strong man to run his course.

6 Its rising is from one end of the heavens, And its circuit to the other end of them; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.

 

From this alone, a close reading would show that the sun doesn't move, but the earth does.  Right?

 

Just Re-Writing the verses doesn't mean anything other than Re-Writing the Verses.

 

Show what these PROVE?

 

And, are you saying the Sun doesn't move in the Milky Way or Universe?

 

He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever. (Psa 104:5 NAS)

Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved. (Psa 93:1 NAS)

 

Can these mean it will not "wobble" out of control (Psa 104:5)

 

and

 

It won't be moved out of it's Orbit? (Psa 93: 1)

 

 

Now, quid pro quo, can you show me any verse that shows the opposite; the sun is fixed and the earth moves around it?

 

I don't think there is such a verse(s).  And again, the Bible is not a Science Book.  And again, The Absence of Evidence doesn't mean the Evidence of Absence.  (See: Salamanders)

[Enoch2021]

Yes, yes yes, the failure to distinguish between the human and Divine author.

 

Now, did God shrink the argentinosauroses?  

 

clb

 

 

 

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Now, did God shrink the argentinosauroses?

 

Why....for what purpose?

[anthonyjmcgirr]

Most dinosaurs were no larger than a chicken. The gigantic ones could've been taken as babies correct? 

 

Or I have another theory.  The fact that reptiles never stop growing and if you incorporate the earth's climate at a time before the flood and even before the curse.  People lived so much longer, so why not the animals, insects, reptiles, etc?  I've seen fossils of gigantic ants, scorpions, turtles, centipedes, etc...sizes that you do not see in nature today.  Even humans were giants and there are bones and historical evidence to prove it. 

[jerryR34]

 The gigantic ones could've been taken as babies correct? 

You are trying to pound your square peg of belief into the round hole of reality...start from the evidence...

Edited March 18, 2014 by jerryR34

[Enoch2021]

 

 The gigantic ones could've been taken as babies correct? 

You are trying to pound your square peg of belief into the round hole of reality...start from the evidence...

 

 

 

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You are trying to pound your square peg of belief into the round hole of reality.

 

How so? It's just Common Sense.

 

 

 

..start from the evidence...

 

Evidence of what?  Your request is Non-Sequitur,  it happened roughly 4000 years ago.  Do you want him to acquire a Time-Machine?

 

And, with YOUR next claim, can you please provide some evidence or CITE SOURCES.

[anthonyjmcgirr]

 

 The gigantic ones could've been taken as babies correct? 

You are trying to pound your square peg of belief into the round hole of reality...start from the evidence...

 

 

We gave you the evidence.  Do you deny there are gigantic fossils of the animals I described?  Or the clay pottery and dinosaur carvings on burial stones and painted on cave walls?  We've shown that all to you.  There is much more evidence of that than the wax statues you find in any museum that supposedly show how human ancestors looked several million years ago.  There's no fossil evidence presented...just images of what they think they looked like.  Pure bias.

 

Oh, did you know that they still teach science to kids in school that has been disproven a long time ago?