Russia and Crimea - Walid Shoebat's theory

[ARGOSY]

It depends how you interpret Revelation 13. Do you believe that the word 'all', does not apply to the entire Globe?

 

⁷ And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

⁸ And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

⁹ If any man have an ear, let him hear.

¹⁰ He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

¹¹ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

¹² And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

¹³ And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

¹⁴ And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

¹⁵ And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

¹⁶ And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Yes I believe he will have some authority over all the earth, much like the united nations has authority. But there is also autonomy, he does not have full control. I believe some countries will be a lot safer from persecution/beheading than others. I suspect the main areas of persecution/beheadings will be the EU and the Middle East which will be more under Shariah Law.

Also the words used are not as strong in the Greek as translated into English:

The word all, can mean all, but it also can mean "all manner of". In context when there are many types being mentioned, the phrase "all manner of" is better. The greek word "pas" means "ALL/EVERYTHING" or "SOME OF ALL TYPES".

individually

each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

collectively

some of all types

also the word "earth" means "land"... often referring just to Israel.

[ARGOSY]

Here is another possible interpretation of Rev 13 that remains true to the Greek usage of the words "pas" (all/all types) and "ge" (land):

 

⁷ And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all manner of kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

⁸ And all that dwell upon the land (Israel) shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

⁹ If any man have an ear, let him hear.

¹⁰ He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

¹¹ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the land; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

¹² And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the land (Israel) and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

¹³ And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the land in the sight of men,

¹⁴ And deceiveth them that dwell on the land (Israel) by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the land (Israel), that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

¹⁵ And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

¹⁶ And he causeth all types, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

[OakWood]

 

It depends how you interpret Revelation 13. Do you believe that the word 'all', does not apply to the entire Globe?

 

⁷ And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

⁸ And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

⁹ If any man have an ear, let him hear.

¹⁰ He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

¹¹ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

¹² And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

¹³ And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

¹⁴ And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

¹⁵ And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

¹⁶ And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Yes I believe he will have some authority over all the earth, much like the united nations has authority. But there is also autonomy, he does not have full control. I believe some countries will be a lot safer from persecution/beheading than others. I suspect the main areas of persecution/beheadings will be the EU and the Middle East which will be more under Shariah Law.

Also the words used are not as strong in the Greek as translated into English:

The word all, can mean all, but it also can mean "all manner of". In context when there are many types being mentioned, the phrase "all manner of" is better. The greek word "pas" means "ALL/EVERYTHING" or "SOME OF ALL TYPES".

individually

each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

collectively

some of all types

also the word "earth" means "land"... often referring just to Israel.

 

 

I suppose you have a point. If you look at verse 16, it states that 'all, both great and small receive the mark' but we know that not all do. There are some that don't take it, so in this case all does not mean all.

[Montana Marv]

 

 

 

 

I enjoy your detailed political analysis of the region. I don't agree with your conclusions though. I agree the Middle East is divided into pro-west and anti-west, and I believe the pro-west faction (Israel/Turkey) will completely dominate, Russia will lose the current powerplay in the Middle East, even losing Iran to the western Turkey controlled coalition. I believe the west is so powerful militarily that Islam will quietly allow the region to become west/Israel friendly and even offer up a Jewish "Christ" (the antichrist) to appease the Jews. Russia will appear to be sidelined in this, but Russia will be building up its power along with Turkey, for the sudden surprise attack on Israel after Israel has been complacent under the antichrist. Thus when I read Daniel 11:36-45 it speaks to me of an Israel-based leader. He takes over the beautiful land, 2 Thess 2 is clear he comes to power in Jerusalem, and he "plants his tents" in Israel. The attack from the north I believe is the Gog attack, Russia and Turkey and Iran will catch Israel by surprise after they have weakened USA and Europe. Both sides are evil in this war, and only when Jews repent and cry out to Jesus will Jesus intervene in this war, at the second coming.

 

You have to consider that to get Iran to ally with Turkey there has to be some way of overcoming the Sunni-Shia split. They despise each other.

Also, how can Russia attack Israel if the entire World is under the rule of the Beast?

 

The beast only has direct rule over 3 of the ten Middle Eastern regions. I believe borders of the ten regions will resemble the leopard (Alexander's kingdom) because Rev 13 says the beast will resemble the leopard. This would encompass the following countries: Turkey, Greece (EU?), Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya. Daniel 11 says he will not control Jordan. This appears to contrast with him having authority over all nations, which he does, but there is that contradition which seems to mean that he will have some authority over all nations, but complete militay authority over only 3 nations (little horn - 3 horns).

Iran and Turkey will be allies of the beast, but at the same time be planning a great rebellion, together with Russia. The reason the Shiite Moslems agree to this western friendly union is merely due to a great deception. At the moment they are powerless under the military might of the West, and so Iran will bow to the rhetoric, and bend to this Middle East Union to save themselves for a long-term secretive attack on Israel. They have already started their western friendly rhetoric, as have prominent Turks started promoting this Israeli/Turkish peace together with a Jewish "Messiah".

 

 

There is an old thread somewhere about the Kingdom of the Beast - is it truly Global or just local? I can believe in a Sunni-Shia alliance occurring because Ezekiel reminds us that when the invasion of Israel starts to go horribly wrong that the invaders turn against each other - something that Muslims have a tendency to do (they love to blame each other).

 

Yes, this would make sense. I believe the beast kingdom is not truly global. Look at this from Daniel 11:

41 He will also enter the Beautiful Land, and many countries will fall; but these will be rescued out of his hand: Edom, Moab and the foremost of the sons of Ammon. 42 Then he will stretch out his hand against other countries, and the land of Egypt will not escape

He takes over Israel. But Jordan and Saudi do not fall under his control.

 

Argosy

 

I am only responding to the in Bold text above, Daniel 11:41.  Why are these three areas rescued out of his hand.  Matt 24:15,16.  When you see standing in the Holy Place... Flee to the mountains.  These areas are where Israel is to flee to, here they are protected; not just Petra.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[ARGOSY]

I enjoy your detailed political analysis of the region. I don't agree with your conclusions though. I agree the Middle East is divided into pro-west and anti-west, and I believe the pro-west faction (Israel/Turkey) will completely dominate, Russia will lose the current powerplay in the Middle East, even losing Iran to the western Turkey controlled coalition. I believe the west is so powerful militarily that Islam will quietly allow the region to become west/Israel friendly and even offer up a Jewish "Christ" (the antichrist) to appease the Jews. Russia will appear to be sidelined in this, but Russia will be building up its power along with Turkey, for the sudden surprise attack on Israel after Israel has been complacent under the antichrist. Thus when I read Daniel 11:36-45 it speaks to me of an Israel-based leader. He takes over the beautiful land, 2 Thess 2 is clear he comes to power in Jerusalem, and he "plants his tents" in Israel. The attack from the north I believe is the Gog attack, Russia and Turkey and Iran will catch Israel by surprise after they have weakened USA and Europe. Both sides are evil in this war, and only when Jews repent and cry out to Jesus will Jesus intervene in this war, at the second coming.

 

You have to consider that to get Iran to ally with Turkey there has to be some way of overcoming the Sunni-Shia split. They despise each other.

Also, how can Russia attack Israel if the entire World is under the rule of the Beast?

The beast only has direct rule over 3 of the ten Middle Eastern regions. I believe borders of the ten regions will resemble the leopard (Alexander's kingdom) because Rev 13 says the beast will resemble the leopard. This would encompass the following countries: Turkey, Greece (EU?), Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya. Daniel 11 says he will not control Jordan. This appears to contrast with him having authority over all nations, which he does, but there is that contradition which seems to mean that he will have some authority over all nations, but complete militay authority over only 3 nations (little horn - 3 horns).

Iran and Turkey will be allies of the beast, but at the same time be planning a great rebellion, together with Russia. The reason the Shiite Moslems agree to this western friendly union is merely due to a great deception. At the moment they are powerless under the military might of the West, and so Iran will bow to the rhetoric, and bend to this Middle East Union to save themselves for a long-term secretive attack on Israel. They have already started their western friendly rhetoric, as have prominent Turks started promoting this Israeli/Turkish peace together with a Jewish "Messiah".

 

There is an old thread somewhere about the Kingdom of the Beast - is it truly Global or just local? I can believe in a Sunni-Shia alliance occurring because Ezekiel reminds us that when the invasion of Israel starts to go horribly wrong that the invaders turn against each other - something that Muslims have a tendency to do (they love to blame each other).

Yes, this would make sense. I believe the beast kingdom is not truly global. Look at this from Daniel 11:

41 He will also enter the Beautiful Land, and many countries will fall; but these will be rescued out of his hand: Edom, Moab and the foremost of the sons of Ammon. 42 Then he will stretch out his hand against other countries, and the land of Egypt will not escape

He takes over Israel. But Jordan and Saudi do not fall under his control.

Argosy

 

I am only responding to the in Bold text above, Daniel 11:41.  Why are these three areas rescued out of his hand.  Matt 24:15,16.  When you see standing in the Holy Place... Flee to the mountains.  These areas are where Israel is to flee to, here they are protected; not just Petra.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

I believe that Edom and Moab and Ammon begin the other side of the mountains of Israel, and extend far into Arabia.

My reasoning for their exclusion from the beast's empire is based on current politics. I believe its the west together with Turkey that will decide on which countries are in this new Middle Eastern Union. They are focussing on bringing anti-West countries under the subjection of this massive new Middle Eastern Union. Those regions that historically had a very good relationship with the West, namely Jordan and Saudi Arabia, are excluded from any necessity to crush and end their sovereignity.