Guest shiloh357 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Let me ask you, Shiloh, is the Bible just a guide for man as far as you are concerned? Or is it the final court of arbitration for truth (the rule of measure for truth)? John, just answer my question.... Why is your doctrine perfect and everyone else's corrupt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 14, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 The Bible's doctrines are perfect and if they be mine they be mine only because I defer and bow to the Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 14, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 Let me ask you... How is it you find yourself defending (or posing this inquiry on behalf of) everyone elses? When it is clear in scripture that in his High Priestly Prayer the Lord Jesus prayed that we be one as even the Father and he are one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 The Bible's doctrines are perfect and if they be mine they be mine only because I defer and bow to the Word of God. Yes I guess you presume you handle the Scriptures with completely purity of understanding, that there are no weaknesses in your theology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted July 14, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm not really sure what this thread is asking, but it appears to be questioning why there is so much division within the Church and why Christians disagree on so many things, and indeed why do we have so many different denominations. I think that this is only an problem when Churches teach false (non-Biblical) doctrine. I don't think it is an issue otherwise. Many differences between Churches are based around liturgy more than they are doctrine. 1/ If a church teaches that salvation can come without Jesus Christ or does not acknowledge that Jesus is the son of God, died and was resurrected for our sins then it is a false church. 2/ If a church deliberately corrupts scripture or cherry-picks scripture to suit its own man-made agenda, then it is a false Church. These are the two main things to look out for. Churches that teach that there are many ways to find salvation or that all religions lead to God are false Churches. Churches that twist scripture to tailorise it to their own man-made desires or to court popularity are also false Churches.An example of this would be Churches that endorse gay marriages. If the Salvation Army wish their members to abstain from alcohol, whilst another Church will allow it in moderation then this does not make either of them a false Church. I have never met anybody in the Salvation Army yet who believes that drinking alcohol is harmful to salvation, they just prefer not to do it themselves because they are wary of scriptures that warn against drunkenness. To each their own. Maybe one day all churches will unite, but at the moment it does not appear to be the case. Divisions within the Church can be problematic and Christians should ideally be united, but unfortunately they are not at the moment. But as long as they respect each other, follow the two points that I have made above and work with the Holy Spirit then this should not be a cause for concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Let me ask you... How is it you find yourself defending (or posing this inquiry on behalf of) everyone elses? When it is clear in scripture that in his High Priestly Prayer the Lord Jesus prayed that we be one as even the Father and he are one.... And being one means what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 14, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 The Bible's doctrines are perfect and if they be mine they be mine only because I defer and bow to the Word of God. Yes I guess you presume you handle the Scriptures with completely purity of understanding, that there are no weaknesses in your theology? Never said that. Just trying to get a foot in the door of the discussion without someone like you trying to derail it simply because you dislike me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 The Bible's doctrines are perfect and if they be mine they be mine only because I defer and bow to the Word of God. Yes I guess you presume you handle the Scriptures with completely purity of understanding, that there are no weaknesses in your theology? Never said that. Just trying to get a foot in the door of the discussion without someone like you trying to derail it simply because you dislike me. I don't dislike you. I just think it is rather presumptuous to assume that everyone else's theology is corrupted by traditions. You seem to be the one sitting in judgment on the rest of Christianity. Atl least that is it comes across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 14, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm not really sure what this thread is asking, but it appears to be questioning why there is so much division within the Church and why Christians disagree on so many things, and indeed why do we have so many different denominations. I think that this is only an problem when Churches teach false (non-Biblical) doctrine. I don't think it is an issue otherwise. Many differences between Churches are based around liturgy more than they are doctrine. 1/ If a church teaches that salvation can come without Jesus Christ or does not acknowledge that Jesus is the son of God, died and was resurrected for our sins then it is a false church. 2/ If a church deliberately corrupts scripture or cherry-picks scripture to suit its own man-made agenda, then it is a false Church. These are the two main things to look out for. Churches that teach that there are many ways to find salvation or that all religions lead to God are false Churches. Churches that twist scripture to tailorise it to their own man-made desires or to court popularity are also false Churches.An example of this would be Churches that endorse gay marriages. If the Salvation Army wish their members to abstain from alcohol, whilst another Church will allow it in moderation then this does not make either of them a false Church. I have never met anybody in the Salvation Army yet who believes that drinking alcohol is harmful to salvation, they just prefer not to do it themselves because they are wary of scriptures that warn against drunkenness. To each their own. Maybe one day all churches will unite, but at the moment it does not appear to be the case. Divisions within the Church can be problematic and Christians should ideally be united, but unfortunately they are not at the moment. But as long as they respect each other, follow the two points that I have made above and work with the Holy Spirit then this should not be a cause for concern. Good words. And thank you for the kind / respectful manner in which you posted them. I believe the scripture will bear out that what divides and conquers Christians at the source is the fact that we do not place the emphasis on the scripture that God intended. Doctrines and traditions are good so long as they adhere to the Word of God. But so many doctrines and traditions in Christendom are based on private interpretations of the scriptures or creeds of men or in fact the traditions of men. Mark 7:7-13 (KJV) 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 14, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 The Bible's doctrines are perfect and if they be mine they be mine only because I defer and bow to the Word of God. Yes I guess you presume you handle the Scriptures with completely purity of understanding, that there are no weaknesses in your theology? Never said that. Just trying to get a foot in the door of the discussion without someone like you trying to derail it simply because you dislike me. I don't dislike you. I just think it is rather presumptuous to assume that everyone else's theology is corrupted by traditions. You seem to be the one sitting in judgment on the rest of Christianity. Atl least that is it comes across. Alright. Let's start over then. Setting aside what I believe entirely. Doesn't the scripture say in the prayer Jesus prayed that the Church should be one as "we are one?" And don't you think it may have something to do with not putting the word of God the bible into its proper place in our theology / doctrine / tradition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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