Science is Dead:Hawking(Stephen) says and other renowned scientists ag

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

Science died when they removed God from it.

I don't think I understand this assertion. How is science 'dead'? And I am not sure how it matters if God is *explicitly* 'in it' or not. It works pretty well at what it is meant to do- understand the workings of the physical universe.

 

 

Rationally speaking... if God IS, than is He not in everything already?

He would have to be in any study or thought process.

 

"It" would not work pretty well at what it was meant to do because understanding

any part of the physical universe would have to concede to it's Creator at some

point or other, no?

 

If the majority of car mechanics don't believe in God would that make the Car Repair field 'dead'? I can't see how that would follow!

 

The reality of science is, the vast majority of it does not directly, or even one or two stepped removed, deal with origins questions. The vast majority of it deals with very specific questions about how some physical phenomenon works. Therefore, whether or not the researcher acknowledges God or not in their work doesn't affect how the vast majority of science is actually done at all.

 

(also the above is partially a response to Enoch also... the vast majority of research is done with concerete, specific, particular matters)

 

 

 

====================================================================================================================

 

You're conflating Car Mechanics (They Observe and TEST/Hypothesis------> Empirical) with the "Science" Masqueraders (SEE List Above) who merely tell "Just So" Stories.  You rarely here a peep about GOD from Empirical Scientists (Physics/Chemistry/Biochemistry/Biology--------> which are all slowly turning into "Information" Sciences).  If honest, they are quite well aware of cases...it's a "well duh"    scenario.

 

My beef is not with them and never was.....just Exposing the Pretenders, it's a full time job   :

 

(Ephesians 5:11) "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."

[alphaparticle]

At the risk of weakening my own position: http://www.nature.com/news/scientific-method-defend-the-integrity-of-physics-1.16535

 

There are theories that are being wildly popularized to the public that are on the fringes of speculation. While I would never exclude evolution or astronomy from the umbrella of science, you can see it isn't clear to those in the establishment how to treatment speculations about multiverses or seeming untestable string theory. Thinking about this, I expect these excesses do not help garner public trust in scientific research as something that is at least attempted to be grounded in careful observation or controlled empirical testing. And I will further admit this, some of this speculation does run up against philosophical concerns for which God could otherwise be the best explanation (specifically here I have in mind invoking the multiverse). I don't think I am ideologically opposed to something like a multiverse, in the end, no matter how massive the cosmos, it is nothing compared to God, but it is true that it is wildly beyond our capacity to know about, in an empirically testable way.

[Guest Teditis]

 

 

 

Science died when they removed God from it.

I don't think I understand this assertion. How is science 'dead'? And I am not sure how it matters if God is *explicitly* 'in it' or not. It works pretty well at what it is meant to do- understand the workings of the physical universe.

 

 

Rationally speaking... if God IS, than is He not in everything already?

He would have to be in any study or thought process.

 

"It" would not work pretty well at what it was meant to do because understanding

any part of the physical universe would have to concede to it's Creator at some

point or other, no?

 

If the majority of car mechanics don't believe in God would that make the Car Repair field 'dead'? I can't see how that would follow!

 

The reality of science is, the vast majority of it does not directly, or even one or two stepped removed, deal with origins questions. The vast majority of it deals with very specific questions about how some physical phenomenon works. Therefore, whether or not the researcher acknowledges God or not in their work doesn't affect how the vast majority of science is actually done at all.

 

(also the above is partially a response to Enoch also... the vast majority of research is done with concerete, specific, particular matters)

 

 

I understand that many (perhaps most) scientific studies don't deal with Origins... however, the OP definitely

implies that to be the thrust of topic.

And while your analogy is poignant it lacks acknowledgement of the vehicle (pardon the pun) that brought

automobiles into being... that being many other scientific endeavors such as physics; particularly gravity, motion

kinetics etc., etc and their affects on mechanics. So while a mechanic need not believe in God, He is the author

of all the sciences that drives (more puns) the industry. No God, no physics, no wrecked vehicles to work on, see? 

[alphaparticle]

 

 

 

 

Science died when they removed God from it.

I don't think I understand this assertion. How is science 'dead'? And I am not sure how it matters if God is *explicitly* 'in it' or not. It works pretty well at what it is meant to do- understand the workings of the physical universe.

 

 

Rationally speaking... if God IS, than is He not in everything already?

He would have to be in any study or thought process.

 

"It" would not work pretty well at what it was meant to do because understanding

any part of the physical universe would have to concede to it's Creator at some

point or other, no?

 

If the majority of car mechanics don't believe in God would that make the Car Repair field 'dead'? I can't see how that would follow!

 

The reality of science is, the vast majority of it does not directly, or even one or two stepped removed, deal with origins questions. The vast majority of it deals with very specific questions about how some physical phenomenon works. Therefore, whether or not the researcher acknowledges God or not in their work doesn't affect how the vast majority of science is actually done at all.

 

(also the above is partially a response to Enoch also... the vast majority of research is done with concerete, specific, particular matters)

 

 

I understand that many (perhaps most) scientific studies don't deal with Origins... however, the OP definitely

implies that to be the thrust of topic.

And while your analogy is poignant it lacks acknowledgement of the vehicle (pardon the pun) that brought

automobiles into being... that being many other scientific endeavors such as physics; particularly gravity, motion

kinetics etc., etc and their affects on mechanics. So while a mechanic need not believe in God, He is the author

of all the sciences that drives (more puns) the industry. No God, no physics, no wrecked vehicles to work on, see? 

 

I don't think the OP makes this distinction. Further, I think the issue is compounded by popular conceptions about science being about these lofty sorts of topics all of the time, when the reality is that is but a very small subset of it.

 

As far as the latter half, the field of Car REpair would be intact even if the majority of mechanics were nonbelievers. So why would the field of science (an enormous field to start!) be declared dead because the majority of its practitioners are nonbelievers? The fact that we wouldn't exist without God isn't relevant to this issue.

[Enoch2021]

At the risk of weakening my own position: http://www.nature.com/news/scientific-method-defend-the-integrity-of-physics-1.16535

 

There are theories that are being wildly popularized to the public that are on the fringes of speculation. While I would never exclude evolution or astronomy from the umbrella of science, you can see it isn't clear to those in the establishment how to treatment speculations about multiverses or seeming untestable string theory. Thinking about this, I expect these excesses do not help garner public trust in scientific research as something that is at least attempted to be grounded in careful observation or controlled empirical testing. And I will further admit this, some of this speculation does run up against philosophical concerns for which God could otherwise be the best explanation (specifically here I have in mind invoking the multiverse). I don't think I am ideologically opposed to something like a multiverse, in the end, no matter how massive the cosmos, it is nothing compared to God, but it is true that it is wildly beyond our capacity to know about, in an empirically testable way.

 

 

================================================================================================================

 

 

While I would never exclude evolution or astronomy from the umbrella of science

 

 

Based on what...1. 2. 3. ....?   

[Guest]

The LORD

 

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

 

And Then There Was All The Rest

 

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24

 

~

 

As far as the latter half, the field of Car Repair would be intact even if the majority of mechanics were nonbelievers.

 

So why would the field of science (an enormous field to start!) be declared dead because the majority of its practitioners are nonbelievers?

 

The fact that we wouldn't exist without God isn't relevant to this issue.

 

 

Beloved, The Clear Fact That Current Automobile Manuals Are Filled Up With Mechanical Science

 

Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, even of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work. Exodus 35:35

 

And That Current New Age Science Manuals Are Riddled With Anti-Christ Dogma

 

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17

 

Should Alert The Thinking Man That All 'Knowledge"

 

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

 

Is Neither Science Nor Knowledge

 

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: 1 Timothy 6:20

 

This Should Be Reverent

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

Don't You Think

 

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelations 4:11

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved

 

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

 

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:10-14

 

Love, Joe

 

~

 

PS: Dear One, It Is Very Telling

 

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

That The Whole Word Of God Speaks Against Those Dogmas Of Men

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

The same was in the beginning with God.

 

All things were made by him;

 

and without him

 

was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3

 

And That

 

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

 

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:8-10

 

Without The Biblical Christ

 

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

His Holy Book Will Judge

 

And if any man hear my words,

 

and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

 

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him:

 

the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:47-48

 

Even The Scientist

 

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:

 

Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

 

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

 

~

 

Beloved, Please Don't Sell Your Birthright

 

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 John 5:21

[Guest Teditis]

 

 

 

 

 

Science died when they removed God from it.

I don't think I understand this assertion. How is science 'dead'? And I am not sure how it matters if God is *explicitly* 'in it' or not. It works pretty well at what it is meant to do- understand the workings of the physical universe.

 

 

Rationally speaking... if God IS, than is He not in everything already?

He would have to be in any study or thought process.

 

"It" would not work pretty well at what it was meant to do because understanding

any part of the physical universe would have to concede to it's Creator at some

point or other, no?

 

If the majority of car mechanics don't believe in God would that make the Car Repair field 'dead'? I can't see how that would follow!

 

The reality of science is, the vast majority of it does not directly, or even one or two stepped removed, deal with origins questions. The vast majority of it deals with very specific questions about how some physical phenomenon works. Therefore, whether or not the researcher acknowledges God or not in their work doesn't affect how the vast majority of science is actually done at all.

 

(also the above is partially a response to Enoch also... the vast majority of research is done with concerete, specific, particular matters)

 

 

I understand that many (perhaps most) scientific studies don't deal with Origins... however, the OP definitely

implies that to be the thrust of topic.

And while your analogy is poignant it lacks acknowledgement of the vehicle (pardon the pun) that brought

automobiles into being... that being many other scientific endeavors such as physics; particularly gravity, motion

kinetics etc., etc and their affects on mechanics. So while a mechanic need not believe in God, He is the author

of all the sciences that drives (more puns) the industry. No God, no physics, no wrecked vehicles to work on, see? 

 

I don't think the OP makes this distinction. Further, I think the issue is compounded by popular conceptions about science being about these lofty sorts of topics all of the time, when the reality is that is but a very small subset of it.

 

As far as the latter half, the field of Car REpair would be intact even if the majority of mechanics were nonbelievers. So why would the field of science (an enormous field to start!) be declared dead because the majority of its practitioners are nonbelievers? The fact that we wouldn't exist without God isn't relevant to this issue.

 

 

Well, let's try a different tack then... what if we did remove God from car repair?

We'll say "God  no longer exists as of today".

Will cars run tomorrow?

I say no... everything will collapse.

He upholds not only the science/study/research/testing... He is Science.

It would be like asking let's test the Theory of Gravity without mass.

 

Non believers have no effect on sciences other than how it's perceived, but

God being there effects all things.

[Tinky]

 

Science died when they removed God from it.

I don't think I understand this assertion. How is science 'dead'? And I am not sure how it matters if God is *explicitly* 'in it' or not. It works pretty well at what it is meant to do- understand the workings of the physical universe.

 

 

 

If one doesn't believe that God created and sustains His creation, one can't have a right understanding of science. 

 

For example: If you remove God from creation, you must explain how it (the universe/life) created itself in violation of scientific laws. By attempting to do so, scientific understanding gets convoluted. 

 

It's "dead" science. 

[Guest Ehud]

Science died when they removed God from it.

I don't think I understand this assertion. How is science 'dead'? And I am not sure how it matters if God is *explicitly* 'in it' or not. It works pretty well at what it is meant to do- understand the workings of the physical universe.

 

 

If one doesn't believe that God created and sustains His creation, one can't have a right understanding of science. 

 

For example: If you remove God from creation, you must explain how it (the universe/life) created itself in violation of scientific laws. By attempting to do so, scientific understanding gets convoluted. 

 

It's "dead" science. 

In reading up on this discussion, I can't help but find myself frequently agreeing with alphaparticle (although, we would likely differ on many other issues). Really this seems to be a matter of how one is looking at it. I tend to think of science with a little "s", meaning that it is simply knowledge gained through the scientific method. In this sense, I just don't see how it could ever be considered dead. The process of observation-hypothesis-experiment-results-conclusions-repeat is something all of us use on a continual basis and we will continue to use it until we're dead (or taken). On the other hand, when you look at Science with a capital "S", meaning the formal system of researchers, grants, publications, etc. that are in theory supposed to be using the scientific method to gain knowledge, you can spot fields (like those mentioned previously by Enoch) which have stepped beyond the realm of testable, repeatable, falsifiable science. If you wish to call these fields "dead," by all means, go right ahead. But don't equate them with little "s" science and say that the whole blessed thing is dead.

 

...science will always be utterly powerless and wrong in comprehending, and explaining the physical universe.

I think we all agree that knowledge gained through the use of the scientific method will be limited in comprehending the universe. Does this really mean that it is "utterly powerless and wrong"? If I find through repeated tests that defects in Gene A result in disease X, then probably that relationship is real and true. Does that explain the universe? No. But it will probably help to understand and cure disease X.

Hold the Fort,

Ehud

[Guest Teditis]

I agree that sciences are wonderful and many scientists go about their day

doing and studying and discovering many equally wonderful things.

And also that AlphaParticle is uniquely on target with defending the many advantages

that we as a society gain from very in-depth studies. Science is not an evil thing just

because some elites in the fields are also demonstrative atheists.

 

So, I lament that many also don't want to even acknowledge the "God" issue and

use the excuse that God doesn't pertain to my particular field of study (like auto mechanics),

when they do so in order to not draw the attention of the elite scientists that do delve into the aspects

of origins and the secondary/tertiary fields. People who demand that God is irrelevant altogether and

therefore doesn't need to be considered when doing any type of research... that to even do so would

taint the investigation altogether. It's a bogus argument that too many shrink from.

 

It's a hard thing for folks on both sides (believers/non-believers) to balance. But I think that the overall

repercussions of shrinking from the freedoms of thought by scientists who also believe in God is that it

essentially strangles Science as a whole and field... and is as has been put forth; DEAD.