8 people shot at church in SC

[Guest shiloh357]

If it's a serious problem what do you want to DO about it? I'm looking for your direct, active solution.

 

Bringing people the Gospel.   Only Jesus can change a racist heart.   No amount of activism will change anyone.

 

This shooter was radicalized by hate groups in a way not really much different than the way IS radicalizes people. This was a terrorist attack that killed more people than the boston marathon bombing.

 

That may be the case, but that only highlights why the ONLY solution that will work is Gospel and the kind of inward change that only Jesus can bring.   it is the kind of love that we saw in the church service when blacks and whites prayed and worshiped together.  Thats' where the solution lies.   You need to look to the family members of the victims in Charleston to see what needs to be done.

 

What are you going to do about it? What should others actively do?

 

 

 

Again, look at how the families of the victims.  They have the solution.  They preached the gospel to that kid AFTER the murders.

 

The obvious solution is to teach people empathy, forgiveness, and understanding, and to confront discriminatory and racist ideologies where they exist in America, not to throw ones hands up in the air and say that racism will always exist.

 

No, the solution is Jesus and the inward transformation that only He can achieve.   You completely overlook the fact that activism and education don't work.   The real answer begins and ends with Jesus and Jesus alone.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

I would also add that the mass killing at Columbine was responded to with forgiveness similar to what we saw in Charleston.

 

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As have all other mass killings, which has been my point all along. Yet you are creating this fantasy narrative that people expected a different reaction or that the Charleston reaction was somehow different.

No, I am not.   In the light of killings in Ferguson, and Baltimore, CNN and Fox news reporters were all flabergasted at the response and if you weren't living under a rock you would have noticed how many times reporters made the comparison and how surprised they were at the response of Charleston which was 180 degrees different than what they saw  in the prior killings in Baltimore and Ferguson.

[Burning_Ember]

Forgiveness is awesome I agree. But it does NOT do anything about white supremacist groups that radicalize people to commit terrorist acts.

 

There are over 800 hate groups in America of one sort or another that engage in stuff like that.

 

I'll believe that your position about Jesus and forgiveness being the solution to all we face is the solution when I see you do that for other terrorist groups like IS.

[Guest shiloh357]

You are right that forgiveness on its own will not do anything about white supremacist groups.  I never said it was.   I said that Jesus is the only solution to those groups, but if they don't repent and they try to force their ideology on others, they will face the opposition of armed Americans who will defend themselves if they have the chance.

 

 

Jesus  is the only solution for ISIS, but absent ISIS' willingness to repent, the only thing left for them is destruction when the US military shows up at their doorstep.

 

But to compare ISIS with white supremacist groups is not an accurate comparison.   White supremacists are only about the superiority of the white race.  ISIS is trying to create a worldwide caliphate to which even Muslims in the US will be forced to swear allegiance to or be killed.

 

ISIS is a completely different kind of threat than white supremacists, and they are better armed and better organized and pose a much greater threats than isolated pockets of white supremacists.

[Burning_Ember]

If there was just ONE cell in America that was radicalizing people for extremist groups like IS to kill Americans, what would you do?

 

There are over 800 hate groups in America, and when we talk about white supremacist groups... Some of those ARE terrorist organizations. They engage in the drug trade, their long term goals are to segregate murder and kill...

 

I don't see how this is a thing where some terrorist groups you should treat with baby gloves and try turn them towards Jesus, and others you wouldn't tolerate for a second in the country.

[Burning_Ember]

You can't deport white supremacist groups. They are in America. Some are terrorists. That's gotta be handled at some point, but many view themselves as Christian, or their ideology will be their religion. 

 

It is a cultural change in teaching people to respect the human beings they live with that is a long, tiresome thing that needs to happen. Racism and hatred is that poison and it's something people have to take a look at and address not just with people they meet, but within ourselves. That means you and me as well. Nobody is perfect.

 

Forgiveness is great, justice is great, but that will not stop the next shooting from happening.

[Guest shiloh357]

I didn't say anything about deporting white supremacists.  I was talking about ISIS cells, but I was respond with how the US government should deal with them.   

 

Racism is a spiritual problem, not a social problem.  You can't reason with a white supremacist, as they are irrational to start with.  There is no amount education or teaching that will change them.   Their hearts have to be changed and Jesus is the only one who can affect that change.  Same goes for ISIS.   They need Jesus, too.  

 

If ISIS had a revival and started the First Baptist Church of Mosul, that would be great, but logic, reason and reality tell us that is not likely to happen.   As Christians we forgive, but that on its own isn't going to change anyone.  Forgiveness helps the victim and those hurt by racists and terrorists, but only a conversion to faith in Jesus will change a racist.  That's the only hope.

 

Governments, schools, social groups, etc.  do not have the answer.   They have never had the answer and racism has been around for a long time.   The notion that ISIS  and extreme racists are going to sit down and listen to sweet reason is naive, at best.

 

Until their hearts are changed by Jesus, nothing else will help them.   As Christians are not called to change the culture.  The culture is unredeemable.  We are called out of the culture, out of the world.   We cannot, in the force of our own will and strength, change the world.   The world is going to Hell.   All we can do is come out of the world not participate in its wickedness.   God has never commissioned us to change the world, but to come out of it.   The world and its wickedness, between the racists, terrorists, gays, etc.   are under God's judgment.   Those who choose to remain in that world's system choose to remain under God's judgment.    Only by a radical transformation by Jesus can racists be changed and come out of the world.   And that is best achieved by preaching the Gospel instead of trying to reach people on a social/cultural level.