fulfilled feasts

[Shar]

7 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Are you suggesting that these things he held in common with the Pharisees means the Pharisees taught him these things rather than that He is God and was affirming those things the pharisees got right?

 

Saying, as His human nature, he was raised and learn these things He was taught.  The Bible says He even had to learn obedience.  Remember, He was Human in every way, besides being the Son of God.  He was raised from infancy to the Jewish adulthood by His parents and learn in the Temple.

[Shar]

3 minutes ago, Joline said:

This should be it's own thread. When you consider what the sect of the Pharisees taught, vs their seat in the Sanhedrin as Judges under the Chief Justice (the high priest) Nothing that came from the seat of Moses was sectarian as the Sadducees and Pharisees had to agree to pronounce judgement. However, as sectarians they taught many things concerning the prophets, and the heavenly kingdom etc.

These were things that Moses law gave them no such authority in. The judges were to decide cases of law between their brethren. The Sadducees merely said such things are not sources of law. They were correct about that. The resurrection and the heavenly kingdom had no place in a Jewish court of law, any more than a judge presiding in our courts applies prophesy in deciding a case.

 

I agree this should be it own thread, if interest continues.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Shar said:

Read what they believed.  The other sects did not practice or believe as the Pharisees did.  The Pharisees believed in Hell, angels, life after death, resurrection, grooming disciples, prayer before meals, etc.  The other sects did not.  Why would Jesus ever say "learn the traditions of the Pharisees, if he were of some other Sect?  Remember, He was not born, raised, died or resurrected as a Gentile.  He was a Jew and he learned Judaism and practiced it completely.

They rejected John Shar. The Pharisees authority were to judge cases under the authority of the highpriest (Sadducee)

They were given no authority in Moses law in anything concerning the heavenly kingdom. NONE, but they gained popularity by doing so making sure that the judges in the highcourt would be of them.

In fact they were afraid to speak against John because he was very popular with the people.

 

[thereselittleflower]

6 minutes ago, Shar said:

Saying, as His human nature, he was raised and learn these things He was taught.  The Bible says He even had to learn obedience.  Remember, He was Human in every way, besides being the Son of God.  He was raised from infancy to the Jewish adulthood by His parents and learn in the Temple.

He learned obedience by the things he suffered.,

• Heb 5:8

  Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

but he was given wisdom and understanding from above and as a child was teaching the teachers.

• Luk 2:46	And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
  Luk 2:47	And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

  Luk 2:49

  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Shar said:

I say the same to you as I just replied to LittleFlower, please read it.   If I go to Mass and keep the Catholic feasts and holidays and I support the Catholic church, you would probably accurately conclude that I am Catholic.  Well, Jesus practiced the Pharisee Sect of Judaism.  Everything He practiced, believed and taught was from that sect of belief.   He never preached against resurrection, Hell, angels, God as Father, as would a Sadducee.  Besides, He stated for them to "learn the traditions of the Pharisees".  He was raised a Jew, by Jewish parents, a Jewish father to teach Him the Torah, and to keep the Jewish faith.  There wasn't anything Jesus did that was not fully Jewish.

Catholic yes, but I would not know if you were Greek Catholic, Roman Catholic, Coptic, Catholic, etc. There is no substance to what you have said that I can see. Where do you get that Jesus said to learn the traditions of the Pharisees?

[Shar]

1 minute ago, Joline said:

They rejected John Shar. The Pharisees authority were to judge cases under the authority of the highpriest (Sadducee)

They were given no authority in Moses law in anything concerning the heavenly kingdom. NONE, but they gained popularity by doing so making sure that the judges in the highcourt would be of them.

In fact they were afraid to speak against John because he was very popular with the people.

 

Joline, that is the point.  The use of the word Pharisee does not mean the entire sects of Pharisees were wrong or even bad.  Some Pharisees were, but that does not negate their beliefs because a few went haywire on John or others.

The kangaroo court that convicted Jesus at night was primarily Sadducee, not Pharisee.  I cannot see Nicodemus or Joseph of Arimathea letting that happen.  The Pharisees would have demanded a defense lawyer for Jesus.  This group denied Him that, along with other rights that the Pharisees would have absolutely required.

[thereselittleflower]

4 minutes ago, Shar said:

Joline, that is the point.  The use of the word Pharisee does not mean the entire sects of Pharisees were wrong or even bad.  Some Pharisees were, but that does not negate their beliefs because a few went haywire on John or others.

The kangaroo court that convicted Jesus at night was primarily Sadducee, not Pharisee.  I cannot see Nicodemus or Joseph of Arimathea letting that happen.  The Pharisees would have demanded a defense lawyer for Jesus.  This group denied Him that, along with other rights that the Pharisees would have absolutely required.

I hope you don't feel like you are being ganged up on.  I'm just genuinely puzzled where the actual proof for this is.   I see assumptions but not proof.

• Jesus’ association with “sinners” illustrates a different conception of separation from the world than the Pharisees had (Mark 12:15-17; Luke 9:9-13; Luke 5:27-32). Jesus affirmed clearly that at times the oral law, championed by the Pharisees, contravened the written law (Matthew 15:1-20). Furthermore, Sabbath-keeping illustrated a different set of priorities to Jesus and the Pharisees (Mark 2:23; 3:6).

https://web.archive.org/web/20050204125447/http://pfo.org/pharisee.htm

[Shar]

4 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

He learned obedience by the things he suffered.,

• Heb 5:8

  Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

but he was given wisdom and understanding from above and as a child was teaching the teachers.

• Luk 2:46	And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
  Luk 2:47	And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

  Luk 2:49

  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

 

True, but he was still raised in human childhood.  His parents were chosen for a reason.  To raise Him, teach Him, guide Him.  He even entered His ministry at the age of 30, to coincide with the age the Jewish male entered into priesthood.

[thereselittleflower]

2 minutes ago, Shar said:

True, but he was still raised in human childhood.  His parents were chosen for a reason.  To raise Him, teach Him, guide Him.  He even entered His ministry at the age of 30, to coincide with the age the Jewish male entered into priesthood.

I agree, and he entered into his Ministry at the bidding of his mother.

Yet there is no real proof he was a pharisee.

 

 

[Shar]

2 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

I hope you don't feel like you are being ganged up on.  I'm just genuinely puzzled where the actual proof for this is.   I see assumptions but not proof.

 

 

I don't feel ganged up on.  I love the discussion.  It is, just look at what He practiced and believed and you can conclude that He was of that sect because He even stated to "learn the traditions of the Pharisees".   You know the old saying "you know them by their fruits", well that is in connection to what they say and do.  Jesus said and practiced what was unique to the beliefs and practices of the Pharisees.