Dhulker Posted May 20, 2002 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 18 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 20, 2002 D do you know the scripture about Gods covenant with Abraham and then his son Isaac? Are your views based on scripture or the secular media? I understand Israel as Gods prophetic time-clock and would be more than happy to discuss this if you would like. Gods ways are not ours, and I personally have alot of respect for the few words He did give us in the Bible. We can choose to believe our own opinions or acknowledge God had something to say in this area and then study what that might be. Are you game? Love in Christ Teri So far no one that I have read on this board will even come to grips with the fact that the government of Israel is today engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing designed to create an ethnicly pure state. The media may be secular but they aren't lying about this. There is no excuse (godly or worldly)for what is going on over there (especially since it is our money that is funding it). Please respond to the legitimacy of my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted May 21, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted May 21, 2002 So far no one that I have read on this board will even come to grips with the fact that the government of Israel is today engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing designed to create an ethnicly pure state. Last I heard they were trying to decide what fraction of Jewish ancestry constituted a Jew. Doesn't sound too pure to me. The media may be secular but they aren't lying about this. They are reporting other peoples lies and there aren't a lot of people in America that still believe the propaganda. There is no excuse (godly or worldly)for what is going on over there God works in mysterious ways and the truth is that He doesn't require our understanding. Under what circumstances has Israel gained more land? Under what circumstances has Israel returned conquered land? Please answer these legitimate questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted May 21, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted May 21, 2002 The growing activism and outspokenness of America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teri Mc Posted May 21, 2002 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 189 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2002 D what I am talking about is Gods covenant with Israel through Abraham and Isaac his son. This is not my opinion but is written in scripture. Also there are many prophecies that are currently being played out there. God told us ahead of time what would happen. It's not using scripture to justify it, but rather to acknowledge that God does not lie, and that God loves us enough to give us a heads up. I believe the point would be to get us off our butts and really spread the gospel. I don't know about you but since the only faith that seems to know whats going on, and has known what would happen for centuries is christianity I thing I'll stick with that. What makes my job and all christians much easier now then in the past is we have actual playing out of scripture right in front of us to point to to say look what the Lord said would happen. What is going on in the middle east is horrible, but it does lend validity to scripture if you choose to study it. I have to say I was more into the new testament until someone pointed this out to me. Once I started studying the Old Testament I was blown away by the simple fact that all of this was wrote down a long time ago. So I guess what I'm trying to say is do you want to study it or just go with your opinion? Love in Christ Teri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhulker Posted May 21, 2002 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 18 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 21, 2002 Under what circumstances has Israel gained more land? Under what circumstances has Israel returned conquered land? Please answer these legitimate questions. Well, it's not like they go up to the arabs and ask for it. Israel is taking land from the Arabs by force. If the arabs don't move, the Israeli government will make them. Returned land? How is giving up a small amount of control in the early 90's, then taking it away a few years later constitute giving? Yes Israel has returned the Sinai penninsula, maybe even twice. But the land in question here is the West Bank and Gaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted May 22, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted May 22, 2002 And why was the Sinai peninsula returned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boblandis Posted May 22, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 252 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,859 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2001 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/16/1963 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Dhulker, Dhulker, Dhulker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted May 22, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Let us recall one reason why Israel was brought into being in the first place. For a thousand years Jews had been persecuted in Christian Europe, from the First Crusade in which Jewish communities in northern France and Germany were massacred, to Hitler's Final Solution in which two thirds of Europe's Jews were murdered, among them one and a half million children. During that time new words entered the human vocabulary - ghetto, pogrom, Holocaust - all created to describe assaults against Jews, and each a permanent stain on the parchment of European history. Throughout that period Jews lacked one thing - a home, defensible space, a place where they could live at peace with their neighbours and ensure their own security. It took the worst crime against humanity to shake the world's conscience and grant the Jewish people that right. That is why, in 1947, the United Nations voted to bring the state of Israel into existence. Shall we now compound that crime by creating a Judenrein Middle East? No nation is without faults, and "My people, right or wrong" is not a Jewish concept. Yet Israel has achieved things of which any nation would have a right to feel proud. It has admitted more refugees than any other country of its size. From nothing it has created one of the great economies of the modern world. It has richly contributed to humanity's heritage of the arts and sciences, medicine and technology-And in a part of the world in which these things are all too rare, it has sustained a free press, an independent judiciary and an active, even hyperactive, democracy. Above all, it has sought peace. On the very day the state was founded, David Ben Gurion said: "We extend our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness." Those words form part of Israel's declaration of independence. Sadly the offer was rejected, before and since. The Arab world turned down the partition proposals of 1937 and 1947. At Khartoum after the Six Day War it delivered its crushing "three nos": no negotiation, no recognition, no peace. When Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered a more generous settlement than anyone believed possible, the Palestinian answer was no again, this time accompanied by suicide bombings on an unprecedented scale. How a country that has continued to seek peace after 53 years of suffering terror and war can be described as "by definition an aggressor" frankly defies belief. The Palestinians have suffered for too long. No people should be without economic prospects, without dignity or hope. That is why it is vital for both sides to this conflict to recognise the rights of the other. Israel is here to stay. So are the Palestinians. From peace, both gain. From conflict, both lose. That is why the Palestinians are in such need of genuine leadership with the courage to speak of compromise and coexistence and abandon the rhetoric of holy war and hate. Israel has offered the Palestinians a more generous future than any of their neighbours or coreligionists have done. All it asks is the right to exist without fear and the constant threat of terror. That is something none of us should have to argue for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhulker Posted May 23, 2002 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 18 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 23, 2002 Throughout that period Jews lacked one thing - a home, defensible space, a place where they could live at peace with their neighbours and ensure their own security. Hmm....wondering if you will be blown up at the next bus stop sounds secure to me. It has admitted more refugees than any other country of its size. And created many as well. The refugees admitted are mostly Jews, and most of them would rather go to the US. How a country that has continued to seek peace after 53 years of suffering terror and war can be described as "by definition an aggressor" frankly defies belief. It's easy. Just replace "peace" with "your village looks nice, vacate it to make room for the next settlement". The Palestinians have suffered for too long. No people should be without economic prospects, without dignity or hope. That is why it is vital for both sides to this conflict to recognise the rights of the other. Israel is here to stay. So are the Palestinians. I have to say, I agree. I just hope that Israel will soon realize that it is not a purely Jewish state, nor does it have the right to make itself one. The arabs have lived there hundreds of years, and have just as much right to be part of Israel as the Jews. And why was the Sinai peninsula returned? This is one of the few instances in which it did return land. This was to primarily to make peace with Egypt. I wish this was true of recent times, but I don't see it. %40 of the west bank is under the control of Israeli settlements and I don't see any call to give any of it back. Dhulker, Dhulker, Dhulker. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted May 23, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted May 23, 2002 "no negotiation, no recognition, no peace." The Sinai was returned because Egypt did negotiate, did recognize Israel's right to exist and that produced peace. The same spirit that sends suicide bombers to blow up innocent people in pool halls and discos and shopping malls, etc. sent two airliners into the twin towers. Do you know who that might be? This lie about creating a purely Jewish state has to be addressed. Massive numbers of Arabs immigrated into Israel because of the jobs offered by the new Jewish state. Samuel Clements toured the Holy Land in the mid-1800's and said it was a desolation. How can you ask the Jews to freely admit 'Palestinians' into their neighborhoods when some of them come with explosives strapped to their bodies? If you choose to believe everything you hear on CNN, never mind, I can already see that you do. Do you see any similarities between the situation in the world today and the prophecies of the Bible. Israel is regathered from the four corners of the Earth to the land promised to them by God after nearly 2000 years. Stop and think for a minute. That is nothing short of a miracle. The whole world, except the US, is against the Jews and have been no matter where they lived. Why can't you see that? They have been persecuted in almost every place they settled. Why do you think that is? Forget what the press says and seek your answers in the scriptures. Israel isn't going anywhere, count on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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