Guest Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 2 hours ago, Esther4:14 said: No, you don't speak for everyone on this board. Personally, I support True Torah Jews financially and with prayers because I support the Jewish people, I just don't support political Zionism and the creation of a Jewish state that rejects Christ in light of what the prophecy has to say. What we are seeing with the creation of this Jewish state that rejects Christ is a deception that is spreading trying to make itself legitimate by having people worship the Jewish people as superior based on genealogical distinction and not based on righteousness or repentance, which is the requirement for the Jewish people to return to the land. So, I support the people at True Torah Jews because while they still use rabbinical teachings, which I don't agree with, they still reject the false teaching of Zionism. Therefore, I do believe it is likely that when the veil is lifted and a remnant is chosen to fulfill Revelation 7 and 11, it will be from this group of Jews who reject the modern institution of Zionism, which is the false worship of the Jewish people. Therefore, Zionism is the same thing as idolatry. No where does the Bible indicate that I am to worship the Jewish people and Christ. This is a false teaching. I also find it quite a contradiction that most people see the abomination of desolation being built by the present state of Israel where the Antichrist will reside and the mark of the beast will also subsequently be implemented; yet, they will still choose to see this same endeavor as some sort of Holy manifestation. Therefore, there is a hypocrisy in our present support of Zionism that also ignores what Revelation 11 has to say about two witnesses coming to rebuke the people in the same place where our Lord was crucified. However, I do believe it will continue to be built because it does say that the beast will be given authority for 42 months (Revelation 13), which still does not mean I have to support the premise of a state of Israel. Are there different organizations Esther? I am not all familiar with Zionism political or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted June 14, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 14, 2016 2 hours ago, shiloh357 said: God is a Zionist and so am I. I believe this should be fine-tuned. Secular Zionist Israel was established in 1948 as a nation state. But they did not acknowledge Jesus of Nazareth as their Messiah-King. Neither did the Orthodox Jews in Israel or outside Israel. In spite of that, God did have His hand over these Jews who are in unbelief, and He had protected them all along from their enemies. Were it not for God's hand, they would have been utterly destroyed. God blesses the Jews in spite of their unbelief, which in itself is amazing grace. As to the right of Israel to the land of Palestine (and beyond) that was established over 4,000 years ago within the Abrahamic Covenant, and that has not changed. Had Israel not rejected the Lord Jesus Christ, the Jews would have remained in Judaea. But they were dispersed in 70 AD. In spite of that God's promises do not change, and He would have brought them back to the Promised Land regardless. In fact, at the Second Coming of Christ all the Jews worldwide will be supernaturally brought to the land of Israel and "all Israel shall be saved". After that the borders of Israel will extend from the Nile to the Euphrates under Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, Ezra said: I believe this should be fine-tuned. Secular Zionist Israel was established in 1948 as a nation state. But they did not acknowledge Jesus of Nazareth as their Messiah-King. Neither did the Orthodox Jews in Israel or outside Israel. In spite of that, God did have His hand over these Jews who are in unbelief, and He had protected them all along from their enemies. Were it not for God's hand, they would have been utterly destroyed. God blesses the Jews in spite of their unbelief, which in itself is amazing grace. As to the right of Israel to the land of Palestine (and beyond) that was established over 4,000 years ago within the Abrahamic Covenant, and that has not changed. Had Israel not rejected the Lord Jesus Christ, the Jews would have remained in Judaea. But they were dispersed in 70 AD. In spite of that God's promises do not change, and He would have brought them back to the Promised Land regardless. In fact, at the Second Coming of Christ all the Jews worldwide will be supernaturally brought to the land of Israel and "all Israel shall be saved". After that the borders of Israel will extend from the Nile to the Euphrates under Christ. I don't know about what all you say......There were two covenants Ezra. Acts is pretty clear, Abraham was not an heir to the land in the covenant of Genesis 15. It was an earthly worldly inheritance............... Acts, Galatians, and Hebrews us helps us to understand these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted June 14, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Joline said: I don't know about what all you say......There were two covenants Ezra. Acts is pretty clear, Abraham was not an heir to the land in the covenant of Genesis 15. It was an earthly worldly inheritance............... Acts, Galatians, and Hebrews us helps us to understand these things. When we confuse the Church with Israel, this is what happens. We apply the NT teachings on the Church (whose eternal home is the New Jerusalem) with the prophecies concerning Israel. While Abraham is a part of the Church (hence he looked for a city which has foundations), the kingdom of Israel will be established on earth. So please study Ezekiel and other OT prophecies to get a grip on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, Ezra said: When we confuse the Church with Israel, this is what happens. We apply the NT teachings on the Church (whose eternal home is the New Jerusalem) with the prophecies concerning Israel. While Abraham is a part of the Church (hence he looked for a city which has foundations), the kingdom of Israel will be established on earth. So please study Ezekiel and other OT prophecies to get a grip on this. What the hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Are you able to even have a discussion of Scripture Ezra? I spoke concerning what is taught in scripture. The first covenant made with Abraham was an earthly worldly covenant of natural heirs, and their inheritance. You can read it right from the law. You can also read about that in Hebrews and Acts. Abraham is not made a father of many nations nor inherits the land in that covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted June 14, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 14, 2016 1 minute ago, Joline said: What the hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Are you able to even have a discussion of Scripture Ezra? I spoke concerning what is taught in scripture. Like I said, you should study Ezekiel in depth before saying anything more. That book is also Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 17 minutes ago, Ezra said: Like I said, you should study Ezekiel in depth before saying anything more. That book is also Scripture. That's the problem, I do not need to study the prophets. All we need as believers is to stand firm in the Gospel that has been preached, ONCE FOR ALL............................. It seems to me all this obsession with what you all expect to come is causing some here to stand on shaky ground. So it's not ONCE FOR ALL........................ The fall feast of atonement for sin, is already being placed in the future, Now Elijah needs to come. John just didn't cut it. This is what you have learned in your study of the prophets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 34 minutes ago, Ezra said: When we confuse the Church with Israel, this is what happens. We apply the NT teachings on the Church (whose eternal home is the New Jerusalem) with the prophecies concerning Israel. While Abraham is a part of the Church (hence he looked for a city which has foundations), the kingdom of Israel will be established on earth. So please study Ezekiel and other OT prophecies to get a grip on this. I don't confuse the two. Actually Ezra, IMO many here are doing just that.................... Confusing Faithless Israel with the Church....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 3 hours ago, Joline said: That's the problem, I do not need to study the prophets. All we need as believers is to stand firm in the Gospel that has been preached, ONCE FOR ALL............................. It seems to me all this obsession with what you all expect to come is causing some here to stand on shaky ground. So it's not ONCE FOR ALL........................ The fall feast of atonement for sin, is already being placed in the future, Now Elijah needs to come. John just didn't cut it. This is what you have learned in your study of the prophets? Well, if your theology is based on selected portions of the Bible and you feel you can neglect other portions, then it is impossible to have a decent discussion on everything the Bible says about Israel. You are cherry picking the parts that you want that fit your anti-Israel agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted June 14, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted June 14, 2016 3 hours ago, Joline said: That's the problem, I do not need to study the prophets. All we need as believers is to stand firm in the Gospel that has been preached, ONCE FOR ALL............................. It seems to me all this obsession with what you all expect to come is causing some here to stand on shaky ground. So it's not ONCE FOR ALL........................ The fall feast of atonement for sin, is already being placed in the future, Now Elijah needs to come. John just didn't cut it. This is what you have learned in your study of the prophets? Problem with your ideology is that the new testament specifically States that all scripture is God breathed and given by God for teaching, reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. (2 Timothy 3:16) So you can't ignore scripture-any of it. Including the prophets. It all has its place. Just because it doesn't agree with your worldview doesn't mean you can ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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