Khristeeanos Posted February 22, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 109 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,278 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2005 I have noticed that people who believe in OSAS/Eternal Security/POS are constantly accusing (falsely so) those who believe in a conditional security of preaching a false works-based salvation. This comes from a lack of understanding of the conditional security viewpoint. It is not the works that save, it is the faith that saves. The person in question surrenders to God out of faith and allows God to have His way in them to complete said person's purpose while here on earth. And the person can later choose to reject that faith and therefore reject the means by which they were saved. This is not a works-based salvation, but a faith-based salvation. Please make the distinction! I could also say the same for those who believe that baptism is part of the Gospel of Christ. It isn't the act of baptism that saves, it is the faith that goes along with it that saves, thus it is not "adding a work" to the finished work of Christ and preaching a false Gospel. If you don't really understand the viewpoint that you disagree with, than please don't misrepresent it. If you must discuss it, then please do so with the motivation of attempting to gain a fuller understanding of their viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted February 22, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2005 If you don't understand what we are saying, then do not try to contradict it. And the person can later choose to reject that faith and therefore reject the means by which they were saved. This is not a works-based salvation, but a faith-based salvation Which is essentially a work. What you are asserting is that a person can "accept Christ", live a life worthy of Christ for a while, then get into sex, drugs, and other things and live a lifestyle that denies Christ, but so long as they do not verbally or mentally renounce Him they are saved? Absolute rubbish. On top of that, and more importantly, you deny the work and WIll of God. YOu are essentially saying that man can take away what belongs to God. So please, until you understand the Eternal Security view, don't try to argue against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahsway Posted February 22, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1959 Share Posted February 22, 2005 But our salvation which is of our faith is dead if we are not working to show Him who resides within us after such a great salvation. If we are to "let this mind be in you"the mind of Christ, and allow God to have His will and way in us, then the fruit of that will show. There will be an outward apearance of an inward change by Yeshua. People will SEE a difference in our talk, walk, ACTIONS, in our very being. We wont look like the world, talk like the world, but we are peculair to the world to say the least. The woman who was going to be stoned( and Yeshua asked who here is without sin cast the first stone)was saved by Yeshua but His words were "GO and sin No more". If she did sin and was caught again they probably would have stoned her as the penality under their law. It was her choice to either sin or not. Salvation is of faith and not of works lest any man should boast. And after such faith comes obedience to the one we put our trust and faith in, and by doing so, the works of the Father will be made manifest in our selves to others so that when we lift up the name of Yeshua others will come to know Him. Our God is one of multiplying His fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khristeeanos Posted February 22, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 109 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,278 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 If you don't understand what we are saying, then do not try to contradict it. And the person can later choose to reject that faith and therefore reject the means by which they were saved. This is not a works-based salvation, but a faith-based salvation Which is essentially a work. What you are asserting is that a person can "accept Christ", live a life worthy of Christ for a while, then get into sex, drugs, and other things and live a lifestyle that denies Christ, but so long as they do not verbally or mentally renounce Him they are saved? Absolute rubbish. On top of that, and more importantly, you deny the work and WIll of God. YOu are essentially saying that man can take away what belongs to God. So please, until you understand the Eternal Security view, don't try to argue against it.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I spent a while believeing in Eternal Security so I do understand it. There are many different ways that people go about to prove the end result and they are quite different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lekcit Posted February 22, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/18/1976 Share Posted February 22, 2005 If someone can do something to lose their salvation then how is that not works based? If, by your actions, you determine your salvation, how is that not works based? I also would like to know how you began believing in Eternal security and now do not. It usually goes the other way around. Please help me understand this. In Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted February 22, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2005 Just because you believed in a form of it for a while doesn't mean you understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Christian Posted February 22, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 205 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2005 I need security in my salvation. If I don't, I will end up back going to a nervous breakdown, or just hang it up all together. Now, my understanding of works is "just doing good and doing kind things for people, among other worthy causes." Now, this does not save someone. Only calling upon Jesus Christ and accepting him and asking him to forgive your sins, will save you, then you must show friut of growing spiritually and growing stronger in Him as you walk. Just by accepting that saving grace, it takes faith, not work to accept this gift of grace from the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khristeeanos Posted February 22, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 109 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,278 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 If someone can do something to lose their salvation then how is that not works based? If, by your actions, you determine your salvation, how is that not works based? I also would like to know how you began believing in Eternal security and now do not. It usually goes the other way around. Please help me understand this. In Him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is like this. We are saved by grace through faith. God supplies the grace We supply the faith Faith is rejectable and can become shipwreck (1 Timothy). Just because you believed in a form of it for a while doesn't mean you understand it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is true, but I do understand it. I went to a SBC church (it has over 15,000 members now) for a while and each week the sermon mentioned OSAS in some form or another. I also listened to dozens of sermons a month that were from other OSAS preachers. I have several friends at that church who sat down with me and explained it to me from their point of view, even the Singles Pastor. I know it quite well, thank you. I need security in my salvation. If I don't, I will end up back going to a nervous breakdown, or just hang it up all together. Now, my understanding of works is "just doing good and doing kind things for people, among other worthy causes." Now, this does not save someone. Only calling upon Jesus Christ and accepting him and asking him to forgive your sins, will save you, then you must show friut of growing spiritually and growing stronger in Him as you walk. Just by accepting that saving grace, it takes faith, not work to accept this gift of grace from the Lord. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You can have security in your salvation. 1 John 5 says you can know that you have eternal life. There is security in the Lord Jesus. You just have to remain and abide in Christ just like 1 John says. That is by faith. If you believe (really believe) in Jesus, you are safe and secure in Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lekcit Posted February 22, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/18/1976 Share Posted February 22, 2005 DIME, If we are saved by grace and God supplies the grace, show me the scriptural evidence that shows that God takes away grace from an individual once they make that "life changing decision". In Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Christian Posted February 22, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 205 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2005 Thank You for your support in this issue. I believe in Him, very much so. I think I do have the just of what you are trying to say. I'll let the others figure it out for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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